Oh dear - red faces as well?

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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#101 Post by TheGreenAnger » Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:35 am

Mrs Ex-Ascot wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:10 pm
PHXPhlyer wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:16 pm
New team names: :-?
Dead Arrows
Broken Arrows
Red Sparrows


PP
They've always been known as the "Dead Sparrows" in RAF circles. :D :ymdevil:
The Red Sparrows , who became The Red Pelicans...




Following the lineage of RAF display teams is bit like researching the same for some old British rock bands! ;)))
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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#102 Post by Woody » Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:19 am

Should this be here or the DM aviation thread?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ended.html
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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#103 Post by Boac » Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:45 am

That article raise more questions for me than answers. I do not recognise the 'background story'. Mind you, time has passed.

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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#104 Post by Ex-Ascot » Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:42 am

We must remember it is DM but people have been talking. I repeat that we have a flight safety issue here.
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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#105 Post by Boac » Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:22 pm

Telegraph, Metro, Sun, Times - all carrying the story in various ways. I'm puzzled by the 'junior trainee pilot' bit. I believe it is now customary for the short-listed pilots for the next year to accompany the team on the Spring work-up in Greece, so presumably this was one of them.

I wonder now if the departure of Damon Green from the team earlier in the winter was tied up in all this too.

All very strange and certainly not the team I 'knew'.

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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#106 Post by Wodrick » Sat Aug 20, 2022 3:02 pm

How many years in the past ? Boac. must been a few.
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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#107 Post by Boac » Sat Aug 20, 2022 3:30 pm

70's/Gnats

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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#108 Post by Ex-Ascot » Sun Aug 21, 2022 5:20 am

Never flew the Gnat but understand more difficult to fly than the Hawk. Junior trainee pilot now understood thank you. So if there was going to be another girlie on the team next year now there isn't.
'Yes, Madam, I am drunk, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly.' Sir Winston Churchill.

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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#109 Post by Boac » Sun Aug 21, 2022 9:06 am

Never flown a Hawk so cannot comment. The Gnat was a delight. It was so compact that it was always said you do not strap in, you put it on :)) With one's little pink bottom so close to the ground, height judgement was easy.

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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#110 Post by 4mastacker » Sun Aug 21, 2022 2:08 pm

Now that the shenanigans with the Reds and also the scribblys (aka HR) with their recruiting diversity cr@p has the focus of the MSM, they have made a laughing stock of the RAF. If I was still serving I would be embarrassed to wear the uniform.

Who on earth thought it was sensible to put a dentist in charge of Personnel Management? Where does a dentist get command experience? Every station I served on, there was never more than half a dozen staff in a dental section and they seemed to lead a very relaxed life compared to the energetic pace around the rest of the station. The RAF should give the job to an engineer, or a stacker or even a rockape - branches that have to manage more than a handful of people across a broad area on a daily basis. But a dentist?? JC on a bike!!
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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#111 Post by Ex-Ascot » Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:39 pm

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... sment.html
The non-statutory inquiry has documented at least 13 alleged incidents of sexual harassment, assault and sexual assault, bullying, intimidation, indecent exposure :-o , victimisation, 'misunderstanding of consent', misogyny and isolation.
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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#112 Post by Boac » Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:50 pm

All very nasty. I will, however, wait for all the journalistic froth to blow away and look to see who, what, where and when. It is all angled to be 'them there pilots', but I am not convinced yet. It is a big team.

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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#113 Post by G-CPTN » Wed Aug 24, 2022 3:47 pm

These problems seem to have started when girlies were admitted.

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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#114 Post by Boac » Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:14 pm

Stop Press!! G-CPTN discovers sex! I'm sure there was a book written about this - something to do with a Garden in Eden, I think? Book named after that pop group?

Out of interest, what is the recent 'history' on other units? I'm sure Ex-A can regale us with tales of inflatable AQ Mattresses in his day, but now the ladies are everywhere - in Typhoons, F35s etc.- and even in submarines!!! Heavens preserve us.

The talk of 'Fresh Meat' takes me back to my fighter squadron days when the only 'Fresh Meat' was the Squadron JP, who, when =)) well-greased, would serve his time in the barrel on a Friday beer-call .............. =)) Ah! Memories of the Jaguar Squadron's boss's welcome to his new JP.... viewtopic.php?f=45&t=7251&p=337041&hilit=queer#p337041

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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#115 Post by 4mastacker » Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:57 pm

Boac wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:48 am
Well, there was a 'wife-swap' while I was on the team (not with another team member) and while it was quite distracting it was well and professionally handled by all..............
Was that the nationally known news-reader who signed in at the guardroom under her maiden name in a failed attempt to conceal her identity? =))

There was another nationally recognised actor with a trendy hairstyle and moustache who also signed in under his real name when visiting his "friend". B-)
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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#116 Post by Boac » Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:11 pm

4Ma - Q1 - no, that was after my time and was not, as far as I know, a 'wife-swap' but a wife-dump, and said Occifer later went early over the rainbow bridge (presumably with smoke on....)

Q2 - I know nothing of what you speak.

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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#117 Post by 4mastacker » Wed Aug 24, 2022 9:54 pm

Boac wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:11 pm
4Ma - Q1 - no, that was after my time and was not, as far as I know, a 'wife-swap' but a wife-dump, and said Occifer later went early over the rainbow bridge (presumably with smoke on....)

Q2 - I know nothing of what you speak.
Q1. I believe the tv personality's ex married the Red's ex..... making it a swap of sorts I suppose.

Q2. That would be after your time as Q1 was going on at the same time... and folks thought Scampton was a sleepy hollow after the Vulcans finished. :))
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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#118 Post by TheGreenAnger » Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:10 pm

More bad press in The Times today.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of these claims, it seems that their airships might want to be seen to do something to pull this team together again. Renewed leadership and maybe a pause to regroup, rethink, strategize, revitalize and retrain is needed. More delay in releasing findings etc. will only do more damage.
The Red Arrows occupy an exalted place in Britain’s cultural landscape. No moment of national pageantry or civic celebration, from the Platinum Jubilee to the smallest provincial air show, is complete without an aerobatic display from the RAF’s most recognisable squadron. For generations that have known only peace, they are the most visible members of the armed forces. It is for that reason that a litany of squalid allegations of bullying and sexual harassment against its personnel uncovered by The Times is so shocking.

For more than eight months the RAF has been investigating allegations of inappropriate behaviour against members of the squadron. Some 40 personnel have given 250 hours of evidence. Among them are several young female recruits disheartened and dismayed by their experiences. Pilots are accused of a culture of heavy drinking that, according to whistleblowers, may have resulted in them flying with alcohol in their systems. The inquiry has also heard allegations of misogyny, bullying, sexual harassment, sexual assault and indecent exposure.

For Britons with fond memories of the Red Arrows’ skills, reports of such chauvinism, boorishness and alleged criminality will be deeply dispiriting. Those who have endured what one witness referred to as a “toxic pocket” of the RAF are less surprised. Indeed, they warn that these allegations, which have prompted the resignation of the squadron’s leader and the suspension of two of its nine pilots, are far from exceptional.

Witnesses who have spoken to The Times at considerable personal risk describe an exercise in intimidation and obfuscation. Though the inquiry was commissioned in December, its conclusion has been delayed from May repeatedly without explanation. There is no timetable for the release of its findings, still less a guarantee of it. Worse still, alleged victims complain they were warned that the price of their testimony would be dismissal from the force.

Britons have every right to expect better from the armed forces than frat-house idiocy, bullying and worse. So too, for that matter, do the vast majority of recruits, increasing numbers of them young women, who enlist to serve their country and fulfil their duties unimpeachably. Unfortunately, few who wear uniform will be surprised by our reporting, for the problem is not isolated. Rather, it appears endemic. This week we revealed also that allegations of bullying in the army have increased by almost 40 per cent in the past seven years. Most of the reports are thrown out. Some have been linked to suicides. Such scandals are not new. Similar stories have recurred for decades. Scandals with such human costs ought to result in introspection and reform. Yet again and again the military escapes real accountability.
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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#119 Post by PHXPhlyer » Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:43 pm

This sound like just the thing to take everyone's minds off what is going on at home and maybe get back into their form they had in Greece. :ymdevil:

Red Arrows to undertake five-week Middle East tour in late 2022

http://thisisflight.net/2022/07/19/red- ... late-2022/

The RAF Red Arrows will return to the Middle East this year as part of a five week tour, making their debut at the Bahrain International Airshow and visiting the nations of Egypt, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.



The Royal Air Force announced on Monday that the team will be participating at the Bahrain International Airshow on the 9th-11th November 2022 – one of the region’s most important aviation trade shows, held biannually since 2010. While in the region, the team will tour several other nations, including Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, supporting the UK’s business and defence initiatives. The RAF said they also hoped the tour would include the team’s first visit to Egypt in almost 20 years.

Totalling five weeks, the tour will begin after their European display season ends, likely commencing in early October and finishing in mid-November. Their European season began in France on the 28th May, with their final appearance currently scheduled for the Great North Run on Saturday 11th September.

The Middle East is the Red Arrows’ most recent destination outside Europe, with the team having visited in 2014, 2016 and 2017. In 2019, they instead toured North America, but returned to the Middle East for a short mini-tour in 2021 in support of the UK’s participation in the delayed Expo 2020 event in Dubai.

This will be the Red Arrows’ first visit to the region as a seven-ship team; the squadron is performing with just seven jets this year, rather than the usual nine, after the unexpected departure of two pilots during pre-season training.

PP

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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#120 Post by Ex-Ascot » Thu Aug 25, 2022 6:07 am

I think that this is a load of tosh.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... gests.html
'Yes, Madam, I am drunk, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly.' Sir Winston Churchill.

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