Oh dear - red faces as well?

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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#141 Post by TheGreenAnger » Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:07 am

It's all Greek to me.
My necessaries are embark'd: farewell. Adieu! I have too grieved a heart to take a tedious leave.

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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#142 Post by Rwy in Sight » Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:09 am

There aren't many such hotels within an hour or more drive from the base.

TGA I see your point: I hope my comments are easy to understand

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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#143 Post by TheGreenAnger » Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:29 am

Rwy in Sight wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:09 am
There aren't many such hotels within an hour or more drive from the base.

TGA I see your point: I hope my comments are easy to understand
RIS, your comms are clear and cogent, as always, it is the fog around this "scandal" I was referring to.
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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#144 Post by Boac » Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:39 am

the Mail has established that the pilots and their support staff were actually billeted at a luxury beach resort called the Negroponte Eretria, some 45 minutes’ drive in the opposite direction.

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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#145 Post by TheGreenAnger » Fri Aug 26, 2022 9:16 am

Ah, finally somebody in authority sees the necessity to stop obfuscating, can kicking and to actually pull finger!
The head of the Royal Air Force has promised to 'address as a priority' allegations of misogyny, sexual harassment and bullying within the Red Arrows.

Air Chief Marshal Sir Mike Wigston, who launched an investigation into accusations of inappropriate behaviour in December 2021, has written a letter to all his personnel stating there are 'legitimate questions being asked'.

The inquiry has revealed multiple allegations of sexism, including that pilots allegedly rating their flying performances based on women they perceived to be attractive, on a scale of 'Susan Boyle' to 'Meghan Markle'.

When they flew well, the performance was rated as 'Meghan Markle' but if they thought their display went poorly, they labelled it as a 'Susan Boyle'.

'I am acutely conscious that the coverage affects us all - whether regular, reserve, civil servant, or contractor - as well as our families and loved ones; and there are legitimate questions being asked which I am determined we will address as a priority.'

Philip Ingram, co-founder of the Independent Defence Authority, which lobbies on behalf of service personnel and veterans, told The Times: 'The way the pilots describe their flying successes further points to an unacceptably laddish culture.

'If that is allowed from the outset and is something that is taken as normal behaviour it is a slippery slope to further bad behaviour.'

One anonymous source said that a woman was slapped on the behind by a member of the squadron, who said 'I can do what I like' after she complained.

Pilots also allegedly got so drunk playing 'Met roulette', which involved drinking heavily if they think their flights would be called-off due to bad weather, that they were 'lucky' if their air shows were cancelled.

Flight Lieutenant Damon Green, who Red 8, left the team for 'personal reasons' in January while Flight Lieutenant Will Cambridge, who was Red 4, was suspended after allegedly having an affair with a junior female colleague.

Earlier this year, a senior Red Arrows officer, Squadron Leader Nick Critchell, resigned apparently in protest over the misconduct of his colleagues.

Other members of the squadron who are accused of sexist behaviour are still serving.

The display team is the pride of the RAF and the public face of the service, performing stunts and zooming over crowds at key British events and royal celebrations.

The BBC have reported Sir Mike told staff the issues would be the focus of a board meeting on September 7.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ority.html

My flying was a bit Susan Boyle! =))

Sorry I can't help laughing.
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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#146 Post by Boac » Fri Aug 26, 2022 9:41 am

I look with some green eyes at the 'winter training' tradition which has developed. In my day, 'winter training' took place in the winter at (our base) RAF Kemble, with an occasional foray (day trip) to the luxury beach-side accommodation at RAF Valley, and 'Public Display Approval' was normally held at RAF Little Rissington.

The 'tradition' grew when Brian Hoskins (ex member and leader) became OC Akrotiri and the team started 'de-camping' there for 'Ex Springhawk' and it appears to have gone more than a little upwards from there.

Certainly a big advantage in going somewhere where the weather is good, but.............?

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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#147 Post by Ex-Ascot » Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:36 am

DM:
elite stunt squadron
~X(
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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#148 Post by TheGreenAnger » Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:47 am

Ex-Ascot wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:36 am
DM:
elite stunt squadron
~X(
Almost as bad as claiming they perform acrobatics? =))
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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#149 Post by Ex-Ascot » Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:02 pm

TheGreenAnger wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:47 am
Ex-Ascot wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:36 am
DM:
elite stunt squadron
~X(
Almost as bad as claiming they perform acrobatics? =))
It seems that they may do but in bed. :YMPARTY:
'Yes, Madam, I am drunk, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly.' Sir Winston Churchill.

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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#150 Post by Ex-Ascot » Mon Aug 29, 2022 12:38 pm

'Yes, Madam, I am drunk, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly.' Sir Winston Churchill.

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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#151 Post by Woody » Tue Aug 30, 2022 10:02 am

Going to need more than a few paracetamol for the bird :((

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/mome ... jpj-tzZ5GI
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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#152 Post by PHXPhlyer » Thu Sep 01, 2022 3:24 pm

ANALYSIS
The Red Arrows


Well, who would want to be in the Red Arrows at the moment, eh? The RAF elite display outfit’s reputation has been trashed all across the media with reports of a “toxic culture” and multiple sackings and resignations by its members.
Apparently, the team’s displays this summer have been reduced from nine aircraft to seven as it tries to sort itself out, and it has been called the “Poisoned Arrows” by that very bastion of the Establishment, the Times.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/the-red-arrows/

Some of the alleged misbehaviour seems a little far-fetched, to be honest. I’d be astonished if “met roulette”, the game it is claimed team members played involving continued drinking into the wee small hours in the hope that the predicted weather the following day would cancel any planned display, involved the pilots themselves. When I earned my private pilot’s licence, the rule was that there had to be at least eight hours “between bottle and throttle”, and I suspect the Red Arrow rules are much stricter than this.

This article is the opinion of the author and not necessarily that of the UK Defence Journal. If you would like to submit your own article on this topic or any other, please see our submission guidelines.

And as for self-marking their own performances in the skies on a scale ranging from Meghan Markle for a good one, via Sienna Miller for an average one, down to Susan Boyle for a poor one, well, boys will be boys, and it’s pretty harmless in the scale of things. Personally, I’d have put Sienna at the top of the scale instead of the Duchess, but there’s no accounting for taste.

We’re told that some of the pilots have had affairs, which may not be ideal as it can affect team spirit and esprit de corps, but sadly this is hardly unusual in today’s society. There have also been relationships between male and female members of the group, but this is commonplace in workplaces all over the world. About half the population seems to have met their future spouse or partner at work, so there’s no big deal here.

What would be quite unacceptable, of course, is if any of the allegations of bullying or sexual harassment prove to be true. There is no place for that in any organisation, never mind an elite military one. However, much of this must remain pure speculation until a report, ordered by the head of the RAF, Air Chief Marshal Sir Mike Wigston, into the team’s reputed misdemeanours is published later this year. Even then, there is some doubt about whether it will be made public.

All of this seems to be along the same lines of the recent SAS “out of control” story that I wrote about here previously. So-called elite units tend to become a law unto themselves as more senior officers are reluctant to police them for fear of being ridiculed or ignored. There appear to be few sanctions ever imposed against such organisations, and that lack of discipline may be part of the reason that they occasionally come off the rails. “Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?” as Jacob Rees-Mogg might say.

But the main reason for such lapses is usually bad leadership. “There are no bad regiments, just bad commanding officers” is the old army adage, and there’s a strong thread of truth in it.

As for the possibility of the Red Arrows being disbanded as some have claimed, I would think this most unlikely. It would be a crushing blow to the RAF’s image and morale. Best to wait first for the conclusions of the investigation before calling for blood.

PP

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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#153 Post by G-CPTN » Thu Sep 01, 2022 4:35 pm

Aren't the Hawks coming to the end of their useful life?

What aircraft are intended to replace the Hawks?

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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#154 Post by Boac » Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:38 pm

Can anyone with local Lincolnshire knowledge tell me how the Arrows are based if Scampton is 'closed', ie engineering, admin support, medical, quarters etc etc?

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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#155 Post by 4mastacker » Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:24 pm

I would expect all logistics/admin parenting responsibilities will be transferred to and provided by Waddington. It's SOP for when a self-accounting station closes and parented units move to another base. Same procedures/processes as when the Arrows moved from Kemble to Scampton.
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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#156 Post by Boac » Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:30 pm

Indeed, and Kemble was 'parented' by Brize, but this is different - Kemble had no RAF admin structure and no quarters for the team occifers or groundcrew. Does everybody get in trucks now at Waddo and drive up every day or is the engineering side still based at Sc?

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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#157 Post by 4mastacker » Sun Sep 11, 2022 9:38 pm

Boac wrote:
Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:30 pm
Indeed, and Kemble was 'parented' by Brize, but this is different - Kemble had no RAF admin structure and no quarters for the team occifers or groundcrew. Does everybody get in trucks now at Waddo and drive up every day or is the engineering side still based at Sc?
Looks like the engineering side is in the process of moving out of Scampton. If anyone is in Scampton's MQs, a daily trek up and down the A15 seems to be on the cards if there's none available at Waddo.

Reds move to Waddo.
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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#158 Post by Ex-Ascot » Mon Sep 12, 2022 4:50 am

Looks as if a museum is planned. Hopefully Niggers grave could be incorporated.
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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#159 Post by Boac » Mon Sep 12, 2022 6:58 am

Thanks, 4ma.

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Re: Oh dear - red faces as well?

#160 Post by Seenenough » Sat Oct 01, 2022 2:03 pm

Maybe this should be a new heading but I 'll just post here.

Recently ,NASCAR announced that flying displays at their events will be discouraged and I have no doubt that others will begin to follow suit.

The cancel culture mob ,who public organizations are petrified of ,are arguing that it is not necessary to fly displays as it creates emissions for no reason and also that the costs to taxpayers ,in the case of using military aircraft' are a waste of money which would be better used to provide social benefits to the tax payers.

I'm getting the feeling that the days of military formation displays are numbered especially in the light of world economies being under such pressure.

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