Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

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Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#1 Post by TheGreenAnger » Mon Aug 29, 2022 6:15 am

HMS Prince of Wales breaks down day after leaving Portsmouth.

UK’s biggest warship suffers propeller shaft damage off south coast after setting sail for US.
The £3bn Royal Navy aircraft carrier HMS Prince of Wales has broken down just one day after departing from Portsmouth to begin a four-month deployment to the US.

The 65,000-tonne warship remained in the south coast exercise area near the Isle of Wight as the Royal Navy conducts “investigations into an emerging mechanical issue,” a spokesperson said on Sunday. They declined to comment further.

Divers have been inspecting the 930-foot carrier after damage was reported to a propeller shaft, according to the Navy Lookout news site.

The vessel – Britain’s largest warship and Nato’s flagship carrier – has had a history of problems, getting stranded in Portsmouth at the end of 2020 after flooding in its engine room damaged the electrics. During its first two years in service, the carrier reportedly spent fewer than 90 days at sea after springing leaks twice in five months.

It was due to cross the Atlantic with its crew of 1,600, stopping in Halifax, Canada as well as in New York and the Caribbean. The crew is scheduled to train alongside the US military and the Royal Canadian Navy in a programme with F-35B jets and uncrewed systems
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... portsmouth
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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#2 Post by TheGreenAnger » Mon Aug 29, 2022 6:23 am

My necessaries are embark'd: farewell. Adieu! I have too grieved a heart to take a tedious leave.

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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#3 Post by Ex-Ascot » Mon Aug 29, 2022 7:55 am

A bit embarrassing. Do we think that she is still under warranty?
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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#4 Post by Boac » Mon Aug 29, 2022 8:23 am

Is there any hope for the monarchy if the Prince of Wales has broken down? :))

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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#5 Post by FD2 » Mon Aug 29, 2022 10:26 am

That could be a long and expensive repair - if plummer block or thrust bearing - or worse still the shaft itself damaged. I'd have thought it would have been 'run in' by now. I have a feeling that something similar happened to HMS QE when she was on acceptance trials. It's not a good look for British ship building skills so I hope it's not as bad as it appears at present.

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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#6 Post by PHXPhlyer » Mon Aug 29, 2022 6:15 pm

I'm sure that they bought trip insurance since this was scheduled to be a long voyage. :ymdevil:
Just wondering about the deductible. :-?

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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#7 Post by compo » Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:40 pm

So HMS PoW didn't manage to Brexit.
Did someone forget to put a shilling in the meter?

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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#8 Post by FD2 » Mon Aug 29, 2022 10:33 pm

It's not looking good. If the starboard shaft is damaged there will be a board of inquiry and a long spell in dry dock. This should just not be happening - missing a deployment because of mechanical problems. If it's due to negligence or poor maintenance then someone's head will be on the block. The Russians, Chinese and any other tinpot world dictators will be laughing up their sleeves at this fiasco. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/0 ... -breaking/



HMS Prince of Wales ‘faces long spell in dry dock’ after breaking down

Warship remains anchored off south-east coast of the Isle Wight after it broke down as it headed for the US
By Dominic Nicholls, Defence and Security Editor 29 August 2022 • 7:00pm


HMS Prince of Wales, the Royal Navy’s £3 billion aircraft carrier, could be set for a lengthy inspection in a dry dock as its “landmark mission” hangs in the balance because of a mechanical fault, The Telegraph has learned.

The warship remained anchored off the south-east coast of the Isle Wight on Monday, where it broke down on Sunday evening less than 24 hours after setting sail for the United States.

The Royal Navy on Monday night confirmed earlier reports that there was a fault with the starboard shaft and that it was likely the vessel will require repairs.

Rear Admiral Steve Moorhouse, who is responsible for ensuring warships are ready to deploy, said: "Shortly after the ship sailed on Saturday, a mechanical fault was discovered with the starboard shaft.

"I’ve been to the ship today to see for myself what the issue is, and how we in the Royal Navy can work together to make sure that the ship can successfully returned to her tasking. After the initial assessment, it’s likely the fault will require repairs, which may impact the ship’s programme. The ship is now moving to a more sheltered anchorage for further inspection."

The 65,000 ton ship has been moved from the Sandown anchorage to nearby Stokes Bay, a more sheltered area that would allow divers to conduct detailed inspections.

The Telegraph understands specialists from the Navy are still working to determine the significance of the fault and that returning HMS Prince of Wales to port – possibly including a lengthy inspection in a dry dock – has not been ruled out.

On Monday, the Royal Navy wrote on Twitter:

You might be aware of issues with @HMSPWLS since leaving her home port of Portsmouth on Saturday. We are in the process of moving her to a different anchorage which is better suited to allow for further inspection of the ship.
— Royal Navy (@RoyalNavy) August 29, 2022

It added: “Right now our focus is on the ship and our people; everyone is working hard to understand the problem and what can be done next.”

Any protracted period of investigation is likely to affect the deployment and could see the ship’s maiden voyage to the US cancelled.

That would be likely to impact the Atlantic Future Forum, the annual gathering of senior politicians, military leaders and policy-makers across Western nations, which is due to take place on board in September.

The event is hosted by the Government and this year will be co-chaired by Admiral Sir Ben Key, the First Sea Lord, and Dame Karen Pierce, the UK ambassador to the US. Any cancellation would be an embarrassment for the Government and new prime minister.

HMS Prince of Wales is due to deploy to North America for four months on what the Navy describes as “a landmark mission to shape the future of stealth jet and drone operations off the coast of North America and in the Caribbean”.

Speaking ahead of the voyage, Captain Richard Hewitt, the Commanding Officer, said: “Taking the HMS Prince of Wales task group across the Atlantic for the rest of this year will not only push the boundaries of UK carrier operations, but will reinforce our close working relationship with our closest ally.”

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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#9 Post by FD2 » Mon Aug 29, 2022 10:38 pm

Speaking ahead of the voyage, Captain Richard Hewitt, the Commanding Officer, said: “Taking the HMS Prince of Wales task group across the Atlantic for the rest of this year will not only push the boundaries of UK carrier operations, but will reinforce our close working relationship with our closest ally.

Sorry Richard but it looks like it's been pushed too far. It takes many years to build a mutually respectful relationship with our allies and a very short time to lose it. Now let's see what the problem is and what has caused it.

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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#10 Post by Boac » Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:46 am

Where is the nearest dry dock that will take the tub?

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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#11 Post by Ex-Ascot » Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:59 am

'Yes, Madam, I am drunk, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly.' Sir Winston Churchill.

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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#12 Post by FD2 » Tue Aug 30, 2022 10:51 am

I can't ever see the Portsmouth dry dock extension taking place due to MOD uselessness and UK lack of money. Rosyth is really awkward with very tight access to the inner basin before the ship is manoeuvred around into the dry dock. At least it's secure. Then there's Cammell Laird in Birkenhead where Ark Royal was built and launched in 1950. Not sure about security there nowadays. HMS PoW is affiliated with Liverpool though. :D

In May 2020, Prince of Wales experienced flooding which the Royal Navy described as "minor". This was followed by more significant flooding from the fire control system in October 2020 which caused damage to her electrical cabling. She was confined to docks where she remained for almost eight months whilst repairs are made. Her long-planned deployment to the United States to undertake her first F-35B trials was cancelled. During 2020 Prince of Wales had been at sea just 30 days, compared to 115 days for Queen Elizabeth. Following repair Prince of Wales departed Portsmouth Naval Base to resume sea trials on 30 April 2021. In October 2021, the Royal Navy declared the ship as fully operational. Wikipedia

She doesn't seem to be properly operational yet. It's a bit of a trek with one screw and several tugs (just in case) to any UK facility that can take her (where the dry dock is unoccupied).

So far not very impressive. If it's the propulsion system that's the problem then the cats and traps decision doesn't have any bearing, though it looks as though she and HMS QE are only capable of 25 knots anyway.

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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#13 Post by 4mastacker » Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:30 pm

If divers are going to have a look, does that suggest the propellor(s) may be part of the problem? Maybe clouted a submerged object such as a freight container washed overboard from a merchant ship?
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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#14 Post by TheGreenAnger » Tue Aug 30, 2022 4:32 pm

4mastacker wrote:
Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:30 pm
If divers are going to have a look, does that suggest the propellor(s) may be part of the problem? Maybe clouted a submerged object such as a freight container washed overboard from a merchant ship?
A question for the naval cognoscenti here, are ducted propellers, or Kort nozzle used on these carriers? I am guessing that they don't as the use of the shroud becomes less efficient at speeds above 10 knots.

Kort Nozzle.JPG
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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#15 Post by CharlieOneSix » Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:23 pm

TheGreenAnger wrote:
Tue Aug 30, 2022 4:32 pm
....A question for the naval cognoscenti here, are ducted propellers, or Kort nozzle used on these carriers? I am guessing that they don't as the use of the shroud becomes less efficient at speeds above 10 knots.
I don't know but I doubt they use a shroud - Rolls Royce developed the propellers to suit the MT30 gas turbines - each propeller is nearly 23 feet in diameter and weighs more than 30 tons!
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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#16 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:20 pm

I looked at kort nozzles for a different project. My understanding is that they are not fitted if the speed is ever intended to be above 10 kts, and therefore not to any warship. Things like river barges, tugs (not ocean tugs), and canal boats are the ideal users. There are equivalent ducts for all kinds of propellers and fans in different fluids, but the principle remains that they are best suited to constant-speed fans at slowish relative speeds. The weight consideration means they are not usually fitted to aircraft (such as long endurance drones), but are often suitable for hovercraft.

Latest rumour is that the shaft oiling mechanism failed to lubricate correctly, and the starboard shaft is damaged. It would appear likely that this is a operator error, but perhaps and maybe compounded by design error.. But, as I say, that's rumour.

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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#17 Post by FD2 » Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:39 pm

HMS Prince of Wales, the £3bn pride of the Navy, grinds to halt over ‘failure to grease propeller shaft’

‘Embarrassment’ as new aircraft carrier's landmark mission to the US hangs in the balance over major fault
By Dominic Nicholls, Associate Editor and Danielle Sheridan, Defence Editor 30 August 2022 • 6:27pm

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/0 ... propeller/

Here is the Telegraph's version. If lubrication failure of that gland was the problem it was either negligence or failure of an automatic system. I wonder how quickly it overheated (how much time before damage occurred) and how many people were in close proximity or monitoring it in a control room?

The Royal Navy’s new £3 billion aircraft carrier may have ground to a halt over a failure to grease the propeller shaft, naval sources have said.

HMS Prince of Wales’s “landmark mission” to the United States is hanging in the balance and may have to be cancelled.

Specialist Royal Navy divers have been inspecting the ship since it broke down on Sunday evening, less than 24 hours after setting sail for the US.

Naval sources have told The Telegraph initial thoughts are pointing to a lack of lubrication on the starboard side at the point the propeller shaft leaves the interior of the hull.

Any overheating at this point due to friction could have damaged the metal shaft, sources have said.

A better understanding of the problem, upon which navy chiefs can make decisions, is not expected before the end of the week.

However, it is thought likely that a period in dry dock will be required, to have a proper look at the area and carry out repairs.
'Significant damage'

The dry dock in Rosyth, Scotland, is thought to be the most likely base for any maintenance given the facility is owned by BAE Systems, the manufacturer of the aircraft carrier.

Suggestions the ship hit a submerged object have been discounted, added the source.

The 65,000-ton ship has been moved from the Sandown anchorage to nearby Stokes Bay, a more sheltered area that would allow divers to conduct detailed inspections.

It will take days to move the ship to Rosyth, should such a decision be taken - putting at risk training with the US Navy, the Royal Canadian Navy and the US Marine Corps, including flight trials with F-35 fighter aircraft.

A senior defence source told The Telegraph that while they would have to wait for the divers to confirm what the source of the issue was, they had "a good idea what the problem is".

The source added: "We think there is significant damage to the starboard shaft. It's not working."

The source also said that this would prove a "major problem to fix" and said they would investigate how this had happened.
'Extremely unfortunate'


Meanwhile Admiral Lord West, the former First Sea Lord, said the timing of the issue was “extremely unfortunate".

"You’d think when they were doing trials they might have spotted it," he added.

"If it’s not an inherent design fault, it can be repaired quickly - and if it is, then someone needs their wrist slapped."

However, he said the issue was an "embarrassment", because of the importance of the ships.

"The Americans see our carriers as hugely important because they need the assistance, as their number of carriers has dwindled and they see threats everywhere,” he said. “If the war in Ukraine expands and it becomes a world war then the front line becomes the sea, because we are a maritime nation."

The departure of HMS Prince of Wales from Portsmouth had already been delayed over the weekend due to a technical issue, although it is not known if the incidents are related.


What does stern gland do?

Stern glands

The stern gland, or stuffing box, is the clever part of the stern gear that prevents water from entering the hull while at the same time allows the propeller shaft to rotate at high speed – it is an ingenious type of seal in other words.

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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#18 Post by PHXPhlyer » Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:52 pm

What is the status of the port shaft? :-?
Is its lubrication also compromised? :-s
If so, a long way to drydock under tow.

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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#19 Post by CharlieOneSix » Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:53 pm

Not a Kort nozzle but FD2 will no doubt recall being taught how to use the Kitchen Rudder on some of the Dartmouth College boats. The marine equivalent of reverse thrust perhaps. I don't think I was ever very good at it!
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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#20 Post by FD2 » Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:57 pm

I remember it was b..... awkward to use and responsible for some embarrassing prangs! Round again! X(

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