Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#61 Post by Boac » Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:42 am

TGA wrote:HMS Prince of Wales was already experiencing some significant problems with her starboard motors and under pressure to sail, required special permission to leave on Saturday with a known defect. Her sailing had already been delayed by 24 hours and she put to sea with civilian staff from the original equipment manufacturer (GE Power Conversion) onboard, presumably confident the motor could be repaired while underway.
This is getting very murky! I did earlier raise the question as to whether she had put to sea 'under pressure from above' and this would appear to be the case. Will heads roll? I would hope that there would have been some inkling as to what the problem was in port, especially since there had been some sort of 'tech delay' (to get the civvies on board?) and surely if there was doubt as to her serviceability it would have made more sense to keep her alongside with divers inspecting the turning shaft rather than pushing off into the oggin to thrash herself to death? I assume there has now been far more damage (and time out of action) this way.

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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#62 Post by FD2 » Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:49 am

Thanks TGA - much clearer at last. Odd place to break and not sure how it damaged the prop and rudder - maybe debris from coupling?

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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#63 Post by Boac » Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:51 am

One hopes there is a shelf in a shed somewhere with a new coupling on it? Aka how long to make a new one?

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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#64 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Sat Sep 03, 2022 8:36 am

Have to work out why the first one broke before sticking in a new one.

Plus of course the usual
"You can't have that Sir, it's in boxes!"
"Sorry Sir, it's the last one. Someone might want it"
"Them's War Stocks, Sir"
"We'll need the old one back first"
etc
(I should add that I have actually been given all these reasons, including being refused War Stocks when we were going to war)

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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#65 Post by FD2 » Sat Sep 03, 2022 11:36 am

Boac wrote:
Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:42 am
Will heads roll? I would hope that there would have been some inkling as to what the problem was in port, especially since there had been some sort of 'tech delay' (to get the civvies on board?) and surely if there was doubt as to her serviceability it would have made more sense to keep her alongside with divers inspecting the turning shaft rather than pushing off into the oggin to thrash herself to death? I assume there has now been far more damage (and time out of action) this way.
That's a definite no no - the shafts are locked before divers go down. They don't like getting chopped up by the propellers. There must have been no physical 'symptoms' that the coupling was about to fail and we have no idea whether divers went down before sailing or not. Neither of course what the 'tech delay' actually was, as it might have been quite unrelated. Remember 'unconfirmed sources' also suggested they grounded on leaving harbour so some things remain just rumours. Hopefully the shaft itself and associated propeller and the rudder are not badly damaged.

She will disappear into the yard at Rosyth and not be seen at sea again for quite a few months. I guess the coupling sits just outside the hull where the shaft emerges. The builders as well as the Navy will want to try and make sure nothing like this happens again. I'm sure the decision process will be examined closely - it's a costly occurrence.



Drawing:
shaft.png
shaft.png (13.17 KiB) Viewed 845 times

Diver Chopper:

propeller.jpg
propeller.jpg (7.69 KiB) Viewed 845 times

Rudder plus Shaft and Propeller Supports:

propellers 2.png
propellers 2.png (444.67 KiB) Viewed 845 times

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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#66 Post by G-CPTN » Sat Sep 03, 2022 11:58 am

Fox3WheresMyBanana wrote:
Sat Sep 03, 2022 8:36 am
Plus of course the usual
"You can't have that Sir, it's in boxes!"
"Sorry Sir, it's the last one. Someone might want it"
"Them's War Stocks, Sir"
"We'll need the old one back first"
etc
(I should add that I have actually been given all these reasons, including being refused War Stocks when we were going to war)
I can well believe that 'jobsworths' would offer - nay, insist - on all of those 'reasons'.

Storekeepers - I've had my share of them in my time - including the occasional helpful ones.

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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#67 Post by Boac » Sat Sep 03, 2022 12:27 pm

FD2 wrote:That's a definite no no - the shafts are locked before divers go down. They don't like getting chopped up by the propellers.
Turning woke, are we? =)) There are many ways to inspect a moving part under water, including cameras, and if the coupling problem was sufficient to damage the rudder (!!!) it had to be blindingly obvious. The whole thing smacks of gross incompetence, I'm afraid.

PS: Buster Crab didn't mind :))

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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#68 Post by PHXPhlyer » Sat Sep 03, 2022 3:10 pm

Boac wrote:
Sat Sep 03, 2022 12:27 pm

PS: Buster Crab didn't mind :))
Actually met him in the mid 70's. Very nice guy.
After he introduced himself he was surprised that a 21 year old knew of his roles as Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buster_Crabbe

PP

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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#69 Post by k3k3 » Sat Sep 03, 2022 3:24 pm

Wrong Crabb I think. This Buster Crabb was killed while diving under a Soviet cruiser on a visit to Portsmouth harbour.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Crabb

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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#70 Post by PHXPhlyer » Sat Sep 03, 2022 3:31 pm

OOPS! :D

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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#71 Post by FD2 » Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:38 pm

No not woke, just common sense. The draw of water through those propellers is significant even at very slow revolutions. Gin clear :)) water in Portsmouth Harbour wouldn't help any TV cameras and higher revolutions would be needed to detect any vibrations, shaking of the hull etc and that's just not done when secured alongside. As we all remember from our flying days the rotating and flapping bits and pieces don't show any signs of going bang before we fly, otherwise we wouldn't fly in them.

It's easy to forget that most new ships, tanks, trains, aircraft, space shuttles etc have teething problems, some of them which take time to rectify and that sometimes accidents do actually happen - annoying as it may seem to us outsiders. I'm sure any 'incompetence' will be justly rewarded.

ps 'Buster' Crabbe may well have been decapitated by Russian divers or more likely their routine anti-diver routine of turning over the propeller shafts frequently and at odd unpredictable intervals when alongside. My father told me they were hospitable at a reception, especially to those like him who had served on Russian convoy duties.

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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#72 Post by Boac » Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:50 pm

I cannot believe that, knowing there was an issue somewhere in the transmission, the only way the RN can establish the problem is to destroy the back end of a carrier? :ymdevil:

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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#73 Post by FD2 » Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:58 pm

Boac wrote:
Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:50 pm
I cannot believe that, knowing there was an issue somewhere in the transmission, the only way the RN can establish the problem is to destroy the back end of a carrier? :ymdevil:
Slightly over the top there Boac. :-o We can speculate away on these threads but when the Board of Enquiry has established the 'facts' then any courts martial will follow. Let's not start scapegoating individuals before then. Also let's see the real extent of the damage first. ;)))

Incidentally, Ordzhonikidze that Crabbe was believed to be investigating, (a Sverdlov Class cruiser) was the reason for the Buccaneer (NA39) being built, so spasiba Russkis.

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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#74 Post by Woody » Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:03 pm

Image
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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#75 Post by TheGreenAnger » Wed Sep 07, 2022 2:21 am

Woody wrote:
Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:03 pm
The Waverley
I had the great pleasure of taking a trip on the Waverley before the lockdown and before her mechanical travails. She is an exceptional ship, and so good to see her at sea again. Co-incidentally she featured in a documentary on the Confederate ship the Robert E Lee on BBC 4 last night, both ships having been laid down on the Clyde (albeit many years apart).

The Waverley.

CSS Robert E Lee

The CSS Alabama another famous ship of the Confederate Navy ranged widely and visited Cape Town where she is remembered to this day in the old "Daar Kom Die Alibama" song. The Alabama was laid down on the Mersey, finally been sunk off Cherbourg by the USS Kearsarge.


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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#76 Post by Woody » Wed Sep 07, 2022 4:40 am

An old school friend shared the photo on the book of faces, as we often had trips on the Waverley down the Clyde,back in the day :-bd
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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#77 Post by k3k3 » Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:14 am

The Portsmouth to Ryde ferry was a similar looking paddle steamer when I was young, it all seemed very adventurous.

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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#78 Post by TheGreenAnger » Wed Sep 07, 2022 12:13 pm

I think the PS Waverley is reputed to make 19 knots at full chat, whereas HMS Prince of Wales will make a maximum of 25 knots when she is pushed, albeit being a far bigger and heavier ship than the PS Waverley. It is said that the US Nimitz class carriers can make better than 35 knots.
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HMS Queen Elizabeth sets off for the USA

#79 Post by TheGreenAnger » Wed Sep 07, 2022 5:34 pm

HMS Queen Elizabeth sailed out of Portsmouth, bound for the United States, as families and well-wishers waved her off.

The carrier is taking the place of her sister ship, HMS Prince of Wales, which had been heading to the US for the deployment but, just 48 hours after the carrier left Portsmouth, a mechanical fault was discovered.

HMS Queen Elizabeth.JPG

https://www.forces.net/qe-class-aircraf ... ister-ship
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Re: Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

#80 Post by G-CPTN » Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:06 pm

TheGreenAnger wrote:
Wed Sep 07, 2022 12:13 pm
It is said that the US Nimitz class carriers can make better than 35 knots.
Does it plane?

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