Royal Navy Aircraft carrier breaks down again.

[FD2]

I can't make up my mind whether to use 'it' or 'we'. I like the latter because it would probably cause more confusion as to whether there might be more of us and I could always say 'we' are not amused, like Queen Victoria.

Another thing just came to mind - the ship is also probably having a prolonged 'work up' off the States because it's a largely new ship's crew and squadron crew and also the various aircraft visiting their deck are not readily available off the U.K. Maybe even better weather too.

We had a similar rotary equivalent to Boac's RVL - set an artificial (for practice) max power limit (via the collective) not to be exceeded and either a gentle flare just over the landing point for touch down or the slowest speed for a run on landing achievable at that power.

[CharlieOneSix]

Admiral Lord West, who served as the First Sea Lord from 2002 to 2006, said: “I am surprised that the Navy wishes to try and divide ship’s companies by focusing on people’s gender rather than seeing them as all of one company

Well said, sir! Load of nonsense. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. End of.

[Boac]

they've already done that with HMS QE

Indeed, and I cannot understand why this manoeuvre is even mentioned as it is not that difficult, and was taught at the Harrier OCU early on after solo 'Pogostick1'. There should be a lot of USMC 'experience' too as we had USMC exchange pilots. Operationally it changes the deck space requirements, of course.

[CharlieOneSix]

The work up is not just for the pilots' benefit. As FD2 says:

.....the ship is also probably having a prolonged 'work up' off the States because it's a largely new ship's crew and squadron crew

The Navy says 60% of the crew are under the age of 25 and for many of those it will be their first time at sea. A lot to learn.

What I did find surprising is that the Ship's Company comprises only 679 personnel - granted that this goes up to 1600 when the Squadrons and a full complement of aircraft are onboard. Still way below the 2,500 on an Audacious class carrier in my time - such is the advance in technology.

[Boac]

That is of course understood but I was referring to the 'publicity' surrounding the F-35 stuff. Will the carriers ever have a 'full complement' of aircraft? I don't think we have enough!

[FD2]

You're right about the numbers of F35s - that comes with a Government decision to go with this design of ship and its unaffordable aircraft. One advantage though might be that the Americans might be more willing to lend support if their own people are onboard though I have my doubts.

There was some fuss made about the landing manoeuvre when HMS QE went to sea but as far as I know there's nothing been publicised about it during this deployment. They would simply have to practise it the same as any technique - it certainly doesn't seem difficult to me - just another landing on another ship - but requiring a clear deck as the days of allowing Buccaneers and Phantoms to land between rows of aircraft seem to have gone.

The documentary series made about HMS QE when she first went off to sea made a big fuss about the simplest of events they showed and 'bigged' everything that happened onboard up to the skies for a bit of sensationalism. Personally I found the series very annoying but non-aviation friends enjoyed it.

[Boac]

Absolutely no idea of F35 handling, but based on a Harrier 'RVL' I would suggest that landing between parked cabs would not be an issue with a probable speed 'over deck' of about 40kts.

[llondel]

Another thing just came to mind - the ship is also probably having a prolonged 'work up' off the States because it's a largely new ship's crew and squadron crew and also the various aircraft visiting their deck are not readily available off the U.K. Maybe even better weather too.

US East Coast in hurricane season? Big chance of a lot worse weather too, unless they want to practice operations in high winds.

[FD2]

You pays your money and takes your chances I guess.

Maybe they will learn more deck operating techniques if they ever get up to full strength of F35s.

Health and safety governs so much and in the documentary I mentioned it looked like they were treating all the crew with kid gloves, almost in a patronising manner. Maybe they have to do that nowadays in case accusations are made of shouting or something heinous like that, because the youngsters are not used to strict discipline. Better safe than sorry though and you have to work carefully with what you've got.

[Boac]

HMS QE back in Pompey with jets aboard. Sailed from GIB.

[Boac]

Can our FAA members explain how aircraft refuelling and rearming is done on a carrier? Are there 'plumbed in' points or is some sort of bowser used?

[FD2]

Bombs, missiles, torpedoes, etc come up on a special lift from the magazines and the armourers (bombheads) put them on trolleys and take them to the aircraft. I have no idea how the fuelling points are arranged on the two new carriers but from Hermes (helicopter carrier version) time the hoses with Avtur were adjacent to the helicopter spots for shut down or rotors running refuels.

Never having served in a fixed wing carrier I couldn't hazard a guess but suspect it would be the same idea. Trying to manoeuvre a bowser around a flight deck crowded with F35s sounds more than a little like an accident waiting to happen.

[Boac]

Video 2 was excellent and not seen before. Spotted 2 of my 'Tim' mates there too, Curly and Gedge. Will need to run it again and see if I can complete my 'spot my mates' cards.

As regards 'potential accidents' I would have thought a few bomb/missile trolleys loose on deck fairly hazardous too ..........viz a viz the errant oil drum!

[Boac]

OK - found an answer (for the Gerald Ford, anyway). Pick the video up around 1:30.

[FD2]

Compare and contrast - what two governments will spend money on - reaping the 'peace dividend' for the RN!

Ark later fitted with British inventions like angled deck and mirror landing sight. Americans finally fit theirs with steel decks.

Ark and Enterprise 6 years apart in service, QE and Ford commissioned same year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Ark_Royal_(R09) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Enterprise_(CVN-65)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Queen_Elizabeth_(R08) ://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Gerald_R._Ford

UK cannot even afford a full complement of aircraft.

Had to omit https from front of Ford link as only 3 allowed.