Seabed Warfare Part 1

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Undried Plum
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Re: Seabed Warfare Part 1

#21 Post by Undried Plum » Sat Oct 08, 2022 12:05 pm

The explosions coincided with the inauguration of the Baltic Pipe taking Norwegian gas to Poland.
Yup. They picked their moment to carry out their Commander in Chief's threat.

The Empire is in charge of Europe and nobody must be allowed to forget that fact.

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Re: Seabed Warfare Part 1

#22 Post by Undried Plum » Sat Oct 08, 2022 12:09 pm

The "force majeur" was there anyway.

The customer had refused to accept the supply of the goods as agreed.

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Re: Seabed Warfare Part 1

#23 Post by TheGreenAnger » Sat Oct 08, 2022 12:19 pm

Undried Plum wrote:
Sat Oct 08, 2022 12:09 pm
The "force majeur" was there anyway.

The customer had refused to accept the supply of the goods as agreed.
A contractual disagreement about delivery and receipt of a service does not constitute force majeure, a large unexplained explosion in a pipeline does! At the end of the day, Gazprom will be able to write off the pipelines as stranded assets. Given the number of Russian senior executives who have been bumped off recently, any rational minds in the Russian gas industry would have quietly acceded to state pressure with regards to the fate of these pipelines!
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Re: Seabed Warfare Part 1

#24 Post by Undried Plum » Sat Oct 08, 2022 12:34 pm

There was no contractual disagreement.

The Germans simply ripped up the contract and refused acceptance of agreed supply of the goods.

Any pretence by the NATO countries that Russia was the bad guy in this terrorist attack is absurd and would be thrown out of any neutral Court.

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Re: Seabed Warfare Part 1

#25 Post by TheGreenAnger » Sat Oct 08, 2022 1:06 pm

Undried Plum wrote:
Sat Oct 08, 2022 12:34 pm
There was no contractual disagreement.

The Germans simply ripped up the contract and refused acceptance of agreed supply of the goods.

Any pretence by the NATO countries that Russia was the bad guy in this terrorist attack is absurd and would be thrown out of any neutral Court.
You are such a sea lawyer UP. ;)))

Refusal to accept goods or services does not necessarily imply ripping the contract up! Every civilised legal system gives certain temporary contractual rights in this area. The contract pertains while such rights are being exercised!
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Re: Seabed Warfare Part 1

#26 Post by Undried Plum » Sat Oct 08, 2022 3:09 pm

Good crit, TGA. Yes, I am something of a "sea lawyer". I have no training or academic knowledge of the Law. I also have never had sight of the contracts between the buyer and seller in the contracts which pertain to those contracts.

Nevertheless, I do recognise that the deal was for a Russian entity to sell gas to a West European entity. It was not the Russian side which regened on the deal.

The Russians, in good faith, spent gawdknows how many hundreds of millions, perhaps billions, on building those pipelines which were expected to bring colossal financial rewards to both parties in the deal.

It was not the Russian side which backed out of the deal. The Russians, for very obvious reasons, wanted to sell their gas at reasonably agreed prices. They had what lawyers call (in Scotland anyway) consensus ad idem.

Sleepy Joe wasn't kidding when he overtly stated that the US would destroy those pipelines.

It was the Western end of the deal which ripped up the contract(s). Not the netherend.

The price which was agreed between willing buyer and willing seller was settled in advance under the normal practice of open market price discovery price finding.

The fascist entity that is the US couldn't thole that as they knew that they couldn't compete. Therefore they used underhanded tactics to oppose the deal. Both deals, actually.

When it became clear that NS2 was going ahead, The Empire used every means available to it, including military action. That's what they do. It's what any fascist Empire strives to achieve in malice against its next perceived enemy.

They've quite effectively achieved what diplomacy failed to achieve. That's pretty much a definition of War. Not a declaration.

The shooting stuff is being done by useful idiots in Mittle-Europa, with devastatingly truly vast quantities of effective guided missilery and highly accurate and practically realtime battlefield Intelligence, but that is merely part of the three part long war against Russia.

The sub marine war against Russia goes on.

There are three parts to this War: Economic; Propaganda; Military.

Blowing up those pipelines was a bit of a crossover of all three.

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Re: Seabed Warfare Part 1

#27 Post by TheGreenAnger » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:20 pm

Undried Plum wrote:
Sat Oct 08, 2022 3:09 pm
Good crit, TGA. Yes, I am something of a "sea lawyer". I have no training or academic knowledge of the Law. I also have never had sight of the contracts between the buyer and seller in the contracts which pertain to those contracts.

Nevertheless, I do recognise that the deal was for a Russian entity to sell gas to a West European entity. It was not the Russian side which regened on the deal.

The Russians, in good faith, spent gawdknows how many hundreds of millions, perhaps billions, on building those pipelines which were expected to bring colossal financial rewards to both parties in the deal.

It was not the Russian side which backed out of the deal. The Russians, for very obvious reasons, wanted to sell their gas at reasonably agreed prices. They had what lawyers call (in Scotland anyway) consensus ad idem.

Sleepy Joe wasn't kidding when he overtly stated that the US would destroy those pipelines.

It was the Western end of the deal which ripped up the contract(s). Not the netherend.

The price which was agreed between willing buyer and willing seller was settled in advance under the normal practice of open market price discovery price finding.

The fascist entity that is the US couldn't thole that as they knew that they couldn't compete. Therefore they used underhanded tactics to oppose the deal. Both deals, actually.

When it became clear that NS2 was going ahead, The Empire used every means available to it, including military action. That's what they do. It's what any fascist Empire strives to achieve in malice against its next perceived enemy.

They've quite effectively achieved what diplomacy failed to achieve. That's pretty much a definition of War. Not a declaration.

The shooting stuff is being done by useful idiots in Mittle-Europa, with devastatingly truly vast quantities of effective guided missilery and highly accurate and practically realtime battlefield Intelligence, but that is merely part of the three part long war against Russia.

The sub marine war against Russia goes on.

There are three parts to this War: Economic; Propaganda; Military.

Blowing up those pipelines was a bit of a crossover of all three.
I won't deny that there are aspects to your argument that are credible, nor will I deny that your point of view is a good logical counterpoint to mine but, I am still ideologically and fundamentally morally opposed to Putin's regime so logically I more apt favour the reasoning that I have outlined here. In such an uncertain case I think that empirical proof one way or the other will tip the scales in favour of one of our points of view unless our disparate beliefs are totally out of whack with some even more improbable but still valid hypothesis not yet canvassed here that might prove to be the truth in this case!
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Re: Seabed Warfare Part 1

#28 Post by Undried Plum » Sat Oct 08, 2022 9:23 pm

I think that empirical proof one way or the other will tip the scales in favour of one of our points of view
Sadly, there will be no such proof in the public domain. Even if there was such evidence, such as the Zapruder pictures in an unrelated case, it would be later and perhaps forever be suppressed and/or used by either side of the debate as evidence, not proof, of one viewpoint or the other.

I worked for the US search & recovery contractor to the USN on the Space Shuttle Discovery job at the time. We had four priorities. First was to fetch the human remains. Second was to fetch the SRBs. Third was to fetch the electro-optical astronav gizmo which was located just in front of the command pilot's windscreen. It was the same gadget as the one which navigates Trident missiles inflight and was, in those days, a bit secret.

Fourth was to find and recover the cargo. There had been a lot of prestidigitator distraction, such as the girlie skoolteetcha, to avoid any mention of the actual purpose of the flight's mission. The satellite which was to be launched was a superduperultrahighlytop secret thingy which was publically labelled as a comms satellite.

When we eventually got to the site where it was known to have fallen, the hecking thing was gone. The hecking Russkies had hecked orf wiv it.

They'd been waiting for it, in the hope that it might just do what it just did. They knew what a piece of shyte the Space Shuttle was and they knew where to pre-position their diver lockout sub(s) just in case they might get lucky.

Stuff happens underwater which is just too embarassing, for one side or the other, or both, to be published.

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Re: Seabed Warfare Part 1

#29 Post by TheGreenAnger » Sun Oct 09, 2022 7:01 am

Undried Plum wrote:
Sat Oct 08, 2022 9:23 pm
I think that empirical proof one way or the other will tip the scales in favour of one of our points of view
Stuff happens underwater which is just too embarassing, for one side or the other, or both, to be published.
Submerged as much as sub rosa I guess.
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Re: Seabed Warfare Part 1

#30 Post by TheGreenAnger » Tue Oct 11, 2022 1:27 pm

The Russians on the seabed again.
Boac wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 6:09 pm
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Re: Seabed Warfare Part 1

#31 Post by Undried Plum » Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:01 pm

Bollocks!

The temporary fault was within the network on the island. The submarine cable was not damaged in any way.

There is no way that the Murricanes are going to cut that cable like they cut the three pipelines. Just not going to happen.

If the Germans have the impudence to attempt to re-open that fourth pipeline, it will be destroyed just like the other three. The Empire will be obeyed.

It'll be interesting to see whether repairs are effected to restore the integrity of the three bombed lines. Several of the specialist syndicates in the fugly building in Lime Street have let the usual brokers know that they needn't bother requesting a quote for insuring any of the four Nord Stream pipelines. Some war risks are insurable, but not that one.

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Re: Seabed Warfare Part 1

#32 Post by TheGreenAnger » Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:19 pm

Undried Plum wrote:
Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:01 pm
Bollocks!

The temporary fault was within the network on the island. The submarine cable was not damaged in any way.

There is no way that the Murricanes are going to cut that cable like they cut the three pipelines. Just not going to happen.

If the Germans have the impudence to attempt to re-open that fourth pipeline, it will be destroyed just like the other three. The Empire will be obeyed.

It'll be interesting to see whether repairs are effected to restore the integrity of the three bombed lines. Several of the specialist syndicates in the fugly building in Lime Street have let the usual brokers know that they needn't bother requesting a quote for insuring any of the four Nord Stream pipelines. Some war risks are insurable, but not that one.
Ah the kraken rose from the depths... ;)))
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Re: Seabed Warfare Part 1

#33 Post by TheGreenAnger » Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:53 pm

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Re: Seabed Warfare Part 1

#34 Post by barkingmad » Mon May 29, 2023 7:02 am

Yet another theory surfaces long after the gas bubbles have dispersed;

https://www.eugyppius.com/p/nord-stream ... egel-after

We will soon run out of countries whom we can blame, but at least the story will provide a variety of scripts for a future James Bond film, if the Globe survives that long.

I’m putting my money on Brexit being the direct cause or indeed Glowball Warming as a possible candidate. =))

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