Skydiving.

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ExSp33db1rd
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Skydiving.

#1 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:46 am

Warning - serious aviation content. ( even move to more appropriate thread - if I knew what it was, parachuting thread doesn't seem to fit this question )

Addressed to those who fly at airfields used by crazy tandem sky dive afficionados.

Our Aero Club is based at an airfield that has recently been designated a permanent parachute drop zone, having previously been an experimental trial one actioned only by NOTAM on fine days, but the outfit that are making money from throwing tourists out of aeroplanes, hopefully securely attached to a -supposedly - experienced "instructor", have decided that their financial future is now secure and have gained permanent status, i.e. NOTAM no longer necessary, but read the chart, now annotated as a drop zone.

Trouble is, they appear to have instructed their pilots to save money, i.e. having reached the required height announce "5 minutes to drop" and then do just that, with scant regard for the rest of us, taxying, completing checks, on final approach etc. etc. which means that we had to keep clear of the runway, costing lottsa money awaiting the chutes to land - yes land on the secondary grass runway necessary for small aircraft under strong wind conditions and direction, on which the para's landed until last month, contrary to CAA Rules which prohibit dropping on runways or taxiways, but they claimed that it was "OK" because they issued a NOTAM. I threatened to put a note in the local Press, that I would be driving through the town on Christmas Day at speeds in excess of 150 Kph - i.e. does just announcing that one is going to break the law make it legal ?

They have now mown a drop zone in the field alongside the runway, but having landed the participants stagger across the runway, dragging parachutes and stopping to take "Selfies", totally disregarding any aircraft that might be on approach or waiting to take off.

Furthermore, the jump pilot, having dropped his "meat bombs" then attempts to get back to base in the shortest - read cheapest - possible time, joining the circuit from any direction, upwind, downwind, crosswind regardless of any circuit direction already created by other aircraft.

Last month a friend, who thought he had correctly interpreted the jump pilots commands, translated to " I am dropping regardless, keep out of the way" and so waited to start his take off until he thought the time was right, but on getting airborne saw the jump aircraft on finals in the reciprocal direction, and turned away, only to see the sky full of parachutes.

Disaster was only just averted, and is now the subject of a CAA enquiry, and I think the jump pilot will be in the poo.

I want to take this opportunity to put my oar in, although I was on no way involved in this case, by regaling the CAA with some of the experiences of myself and colleagues in recent times, and will almost certainly do so.

However, I am making this enquiry to see if anyone else operates from a parachute base aerodrome, and how does one co-exist successfully ? Our lot have decided that the aerodrome is their fiefdom, and once airborne expect the rest of us to await their pleasure.i.e. all para's back on the ground and the aircraft landed. This can take a lot of a young student pilots' money, hanging ( not literally of course ) around until the coast is clear.

Any comments about how you cope welcomed, thanks.

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Re: Skydiving.

#2 Post by Cacophonix » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:51 am

Is there an Airfield Radio or even an ATZ with a controller in your zone ExSp33db!rd?

I have just started flying or rather training at an airfield with a big parachute/skydiving contingent but it seems, from my limited experience there, that the fixed/rotary and parachute contingents co-exist fairly benignly with strict protocols and control to ensure everybody is treated fairly and that safety is paramount. The airfield you are flying at sounds like it is on the road to a major accident/incident. Not good!

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Re: Skydiving.

#3 Post by CharlieOneSix » Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:30 am

One thing I know for certain is that helicopters should not be operating whilst parachuting is taking place - or vice versa- as a 21 year old girl on her first jump at Thruxton in 1987 found out to her eternal cost when she descended into the rotating rotor blades of a hovering helicopter.

AAIB Bulletin re accident involving G-BALE and parachutist
.
GBALE.JPG
GBALE.JPG (117.72 KiB) Viewed 3777 times
The helicopter pilots' mantra: If it hasn't gone wrong then it's just about to...
https://www.glenbervie-weather.org

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Re: Skydiving.

#4 Post by Ex-Ascot » Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:02 pm

As a drop pilot for 16 years I honestly do not think that parachute operations and GA mix safely. At Weston on the Green we had parachuting and gliders. This worked OK. Largest drop zone in the UK and we dictated the glider area of operations. They were only winching and we had control. And yes as a drop pilot you need to get your aircraft back on the ground as quickly as possible ready for the next lift. We could put the BN2T on the ground from 12,000' faster than the idiots in free fall as long as they opened their chutes. Dropping into wind of course it was just a case of turning downwind in a steep dive and landing back on the T/O strip. Gliders doing an opposite circuit pattern on parallel strip idiots landing in the middle. No place for choppers.
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Re: Skydiving.

#5 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:07 am

Is there an Airfield Radio or even an ATZ with a controller in your zone ExSp33db!rd?
No ATC, nearest is an RNZAF Base 100 nm to the South, on the edge of the Auckland Control Zone.

The local area is Mandatory Broadcast, i.e. all aircraft resident or visiting must be equipped with radio and make appropriate calls, that's not the problem, we hear where the jump pilot is, climbing, descending, dropping, returning in the opposite direction to the established circuit etc. the issue is that they take for granted that everyone else will keep out of the way because they have decided to drop NOW. All lesser mortals take heed.

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Re: Skydiving.

#6 Post by Cacophonix » Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:58 am

I know a drop zone pilot who has had his engine cut out on final, so tight did he leave his fuel margin in pursuit of maximising drop turnaround around times and reducing his fuel burn in the quest for the infernal Rand. That he got away with it was more to do with luck and his good stick and rudder skills, that have saved him more than once before, the most significant of the escapes being when a wing began to flutter so badly after a drop that it twisted at the root jamming the yoke solid. He told me that had he had a chute on himself he would have bailed out but instead he made a Mayday call and used rudder and throttle alone to steer the aircraft to land at Cape Town International where he greased the aircraft onto the runway much to the amazement of all who saw the damage to the aircraft's wing. The aircraft was effectively written off so bad had the damage been due to the flutter. Why the flutter occurred was due to loose rigging and why that should have been so is left to one's own supposition!

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Re: Skydiving.

#7 Post by Ex-Ascot » Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:09 am

I used to fly a shed for a club that will remain nameless. To maximize pax load we used to run on fumes. Fuel gauges didn't work you had to get on the wings with a dip stick (not in flight of course). My check pilot was also a jumper. I did two lifts and he asked me if I was happy. I hesitantly said yes so he jumped out. I did a sunset drop somewhere and was cleared to land back at the airfield when it was closed. The owner said you do not need runway lights you have landing lights. On the approach I hit the switches and they didn't work. An interesting landing. I did two weekends and quit.
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Re: Skydiving.

#8 Post by Cacophonix » Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:40 am

Cacophonix wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:58 am
I know a drop zone pilot who has had his engine cut out on final, so tight did he leave his fuel margin in pursuit of maximising load, minimising drop turnaround around times and reducing his fuel burn in the quest for the infernal Rand.
A lot of these outfits fly on the edge of legality and on the smell of an oil rag as you say Ex-Ascot.

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Re: Skydiving.

#9 Post by OFSO » Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:33 pm

At the Christmas Boogie four years ago at my former Catalan drop zone I witnessed a Twotter and a Porter, each fully-laden, taking off from opposite directions on the same runway, that is facing each other, and each aircraft breaking starboard as the wheels came off. Obviously not colliding. Just. This is the same drop zone which severely injured a pilot doing the ice-water challenge using a fully-laden laden fire-fighting aircraft which flew over the prone pilot at about a hundred feet and dumped a full tank of water on him. As is common in Spain you only ever got to know about the not-infrequent accidents and suicides if you had a contact there....

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Re: Skydiving.

#10 Post by Cacophonix » Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:32 pm

OFSO wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:33 pm
At the Christmas Boogie four years ago at my former Catalan drop zone I witnessed a Twotter and a Porter, each fully-laden, taking off from opposite directions on the same runway, that is facing each other, and each aircraft breaking starboard as the wheels came off. Obviously not colliding. Just. This is the same drop zone which severely injured a pilot doing the ice-water challenge using a fully-laden laden fire-fighting aircraft which flew over the prone pilot at about a hundred feet and dumped a full tank of water on him. As is common in Spain you only ever got to know about the not-infrequent accidents and suicides if you had a contact there....
Is it machismo or some other cultural foible that inclines the Spanish to take such stupid risks I wonder?

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Re: Skydiving.

#11 Post by OFSO » Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:47 pm

Same drop zone is in an area where a north wind up to force eight or higher frequently starts to blow in an hour from calm. Sometimes less. Locals know to expect it after a cold front passes. Warning signs are rotational clouds in a vivid blue sky, humidity dropping quickly down to 10%. I asked several guys who'd come from other countries whether they were ever given any meteo briefing at the drop zone to watch out for this. Answer negative. Did sky divers ever get blown out to sea and drown ? Yes.

One day a friend in her car had a guy crash into the road in front of her when his canopy candled. Injuries were what we call 'telescoping'. Ambulance took him off, flown to major trauma centre in Barcelona. I heard he was treated pro bono as he had no medical insurance covering sporting events. I was contacted to see if I could help. I asked the drop zone admin if they ever suggested to people coming to jump that they take out appropriate insurance. Shrug of shoulders.

I suspect the approach to safety was not unusual in drop zones. Most of the guys who came to jump had a casual approach, and the majority used to be English, German, Dutch etc.

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Re: Skydiving.

#12 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:53 pm

I did two weekends and quit.
Probably the best decision of your life. I refused to play.
A lot of these outfits fly on the edge of legality and on the smell of an oil rag as you say Ex-Ascot.
Previous operator was closed down when it was discovered that he used to get his jumpers to weigh themselves plus all the gear, but fill in the load sheet in pencil, then, after they had taken off, adjust the figures to keep the aircraft weight and balance limits within legal limits.

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Re: Skydiving.

#13 Post by OFSO » Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:26 pm

I had an acquaintance who was a sky diving instructor working out of one dropzone. He had an excellent reputation as an instructor and also for safety. However whenever off duty he usually was rolling or smoking a fat juicy joint. Gradually the whacky baccy took over his life, he because unreliable and lost his job as instructor, however he was reemployed as a canopy packer. He then drifted off to the far east where I heard through antipodean sources he'd opened an unlicenced unregistered drop zone. That was closed down PDQ and he then migrated to Thailand where there is less regulation. I have been waiting since then to hear of his demise, sad because he was a good bloke, but so far nothing. But it does illustrate, well, that the sky diving business can be perilous and not just because of Twotters with corroded floors being flown by chaps with no eardrums left. Although that's another story.

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Re: Skydiving.

#14 Post by Cacophonix » Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:36 pm

Sky divers are definitely a breed apart!

Some more so than others.



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Re: Skydiving.

#15 Post by Cacophonix » Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:38 pm

OFSO wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:26 pm
He had an excellent reputation as an instructor and also for safety. However whenever off duty he usually was rolling or smoking a fat juicy joint. Gradually the whacky baccy took over his life, he because unreliable and lost his job as instructor, however he was reemployed as a canopy packer.
I love the progression and the risk assessment inherent in that professional fall from grace. Too gaffed and unreliable to be an instructor but "yeah dude, you can pack our canopies!" =))

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Re: Skydiving.

#16 Post by OFSO » Tue May 01, 2018 9:27 am

With my acrophobia I am never likely to be a sky diver but if I were I know one thing: I'd always pack my own canopy.

Humerous note: a friend discovered just before he exited the Porter that his shrouds were frayed, and elected to stay on board and land back at the dropzone. He said the landing* was more terrifying than he'd thought it would be and wished in retrospect he'd jumped.

* Land, pick up passengers and get off again in the shortest possible time so a steep angle of approach.

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Re: Skydiving.

#17 Post by Cacophonix » Thu May 24, 2018 5:30 pm

Dastardly South African in British Army found guilty...
An army sergeant has been found guilty of trying to murder his wife by tampering with her parachute before a skydive so that he could begin a life with a secret lover and use a life insurance payout to clear his debts.

Emile Cilliers arranged the jump as a treat for his wife, Victoria, soon after the birth of their second child but removed vital components from her parachute, causing her to fall 4,000ft (1,200m).

Victoria, a physiotherapist, “miraculously” survived after landing in a soft, ploughed field but was seriously injured.

A police investigation was launched after it was discovered that pieces of kit called “slinks”, which connect the canopy to the harness, had been removed from the parachute rig.

Detectives found that Cilliers, who has six children, was having affairs with two women and had discussed beginning a new life with one of them. He had also been in contact with sex workers, had heavy debts, was being chased by loan companies and upped his insurance policy so he would benefit if his wife died.

Police discovered that Cilliers had tampered with a gas fitting at the couple’s home in Amesbury, Wiltshire, a week before the parachute jump in an attempt to cause an explosion while he was at work.

Cilliers, 38, of the Royal Army Physical Training Corps, told Winchester crown court that a “random killer” may have sabotaged his 42-year-old wife’s rig at the Army Parachute Association at Netheravon, Wiltshire, on 5 April 2015. He also suggested that the jury needed to consider whether she had tampered with her own parachute because she wanted to kill herself.

The defendant showed no emotion as he was convicted unanimously on the two counts of attempted murder and by a majority of 10 to two on the criminal damage charge.

Victoria Cilliers, an experienced parachuting instructor, suffered near-fatal injuries when both her main and reserve parachutes failed when she took part in a jump at the Army Parachute Association at Netheravon, Wiltshire, on Easter Sunday, 5 April 2015.

Mr Justice Sweeney thanked the jurors for fulfilling their duty “with distinction” and told them: “The burden now falls on me on what to do as far as this defendant is concerned; that too is a heavy burden.”
He continued: “It’s an important part of any sentencing exercise where there is a victim or intended victim, as there plainly is in this case, that the court gives the victim an opportunity to make a statement and despite all the ups and downs that is what I am going to afford Mrs Cilliers the opportunity if she wishes to take it.”

The judge added that he would have to consider the “dangerousness” of the defendant. “It may well be that I may need a report from an expert probation officer on this but, as the judge who has presided over this case twice, you may imagine I have my own views,” he said.

Outside court, DI Paul Franklin, who led the case, said: “Emile Cilliers has shown nothing but contempt for his wife. On two separate occasions he made serious attempts to murder Victoria. He has failed to accept any responsibility for his actions, which reinforces our view that he is a cold, calculating and callous man whose only duty of care is to himself.”

Angus Macpherson, the Wiltshire and Swindon police and crime commissioner, said: “Victims in a coercive relationships suffer greatly at the hands of offenders like Cilliers. Emotional and financial abuse is as deeply traumatising as those who suffer physical domestic violence and victims can suffer the after effects for many years afterwards. I hope this verdict will empower more victims to come forward.”

The judge will hear submissions on Thursday afternoon; the sentencing date has not yet been set.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... -parachute

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Re: Skydiving.

#18 Post by Cacophonix » Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:42 pm

I spent an hour watching the Headcorn parachute club pilot wringing the heart out of their Cessna Caravan today and the efficiency and deftness and timing the of the guy was something to behold and I began to understand how good some of these pilots can be and in talking to some of the folks there how tiring and potentially dangerous the job can be when the wind blows the wrong way and how it can all go wrong in an instant.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... _12-07.pdf

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Re: Skydiving.

#19 Post by Ex-Ascot » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:28 pm

Caco, why do you not give it a bash? Did it it for 20 years. Great fun especially competitions. The pressure is really on. Strictly speaking you can only drop with DZ in sight. The guys/girls trusted me to drop them in cloud. They never landed in the local pub car park. No GPS just VOR/DME bearings.

Sorry, edited to add a few ended up in the adjacent pig farm. Rescue vehical would go to check on their wellbeing but they had to walk back to the DZ. :ymsick:
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Re: Skydiving.

#20 Post by Cacophonix » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:18 pm

Ex-Ascot wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:28 pm
Caco, why do you not give it a bash? Did it it for 20 years. Great fun especially competitions. The pressure is really on. Strictly speaking you can only drop with DZ in sight. The guys/girls trusted me to drop them in cloud. They never landed in the local pub car park. No GPS just VOR/DME bearings.

Sorry, edited to add a few ended up in the adjacent pig farm. Rescue vehical would go to check on their wellbeing but they had to walk back to the DZ. :ymsick:
The thought has had a tendency to keep returning to my noodle Ex-A. I assume you were the pilot of choice for the RAF or one of the other British military teams?

Talking of pig ***** there is a chicken farm on final for runway 10 at Headcorn. I wonder which would smell worse! :)

Here is one very lucky jump pilot, and even luckier sky divers, who managed to cut it all a little fine by stalling...



:-o

Saffers? Real or staged? Looks bloody dangerous but most likely a staged "incident" given the nonchalance and deliberately pro spin attitude of the pilots! Crazy!




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