Drones - a hazard to aviation?

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Re: Drones - a hazard to aviation?

#61 Post by Pontius Navigator » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:10 am

We have heard about hazard, comma, navigation, but what about speed and agility?

All very well having a sniper but if the target jinks by a foot or so you have a miss.

It you get close and track with a helo is the drone more agile?

I realise that evasion probably means the operator has to see the drone rather than rely on a TV link.

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Re: Drones - a hazard to aviation?

#62 Post by Slasher » Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:29 pm

If anyone tried pulling that drone stunt anywhere in China the perp(s) would be rapidly tracked down and shot without any of this 'hooman rights' *****.

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Re: Drones - a hazard to aviation?

#63 Post by Capetonian » Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:42 pm

They got Israeli equipment in to sort it out.
The military equipment being used to stop further drone disruption at Gatwick Airport is believed to be capable of jamming signals to the rogue devices as well as tracking them.

The Israeli-developed Drone Dome system is believed to be among the technology deployed at the airport by the British Army, and can detect and jam communications between a drone and its operator.

Anti-drone equipment has been deployed on a rooftop at Gatwick.

The system, which is said to have a range of several miles, uses four radars to give 360-degree detection in order to identify and track targets.
No big surprise there. Next we will be reading that 'lessons have been learnt'.

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Re: Drones - a hazard to aviation?

#64 Post by Capetonian » Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:30 pm

Just heard that the drones are again in the air. Tragic.

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Re: Drones - a hazard to aviation?

#65 Post by fin » Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:34 pm

Trying to envision the reaction if this had happened when Mr W. Churchill was in office.
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Re: Drones - a hazard to aviation?

#66 Post by Undried Plum » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:53 pm

Capetonian wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:30 pm
Just heard that the drones are again in the air. Tragic.
This time around the total lost time was less than an hour and forty minutes before proper aviation resumed.

A bit of good old British grit is at last being shown.

****, Johnny Terrorist. Hide under the bedclothes when there's a knock on the door, 'cos the boys will let themselves in with what they call a dynamic entry.

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Re: Drones - a hazard to aviation?

#67 Post by Capetonian » Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:58 pm

Statement from police, after 3 days of appalling chaos and disruption :
Detective Chief Superintendent Jason Tingley, from Sussex Police specialist crime command, told reporters at Gatwick this evening that a policy change meant that firearms could be used to shoot down the drone.

He said the use of firearms “will be within our suite of tactical options available to us going forward”.

“The assessment earlier on today was that we wouldn’t be using firearms and capability to deal with the drone.

“This is a continually reviewed process so you will know and have seen that we have firearms officers deployed today.”
No doubt they paid a firm of 'consultants' an obscene amount of money to prepare this statement containing all the irritating 'buzzwords' and phrases.

What baffles me even more is why it's taken three days to realise that the risk posed by the drones is infinitely greater than the potential risk of a bullet scratching someone's car or frightening a cat when it returns to earth.
Security and defence consultant Declan Power told MailOnline: 'The Gatwick situation is a very worrying development as it seems to involve technology which you can buy over the counter and has managed to cause major disruption to one of the UK's busiest airports.

'I am astounded that electronic countermeasures were not in place to prevent drones from approaching the airport.

'I don't think that this is terror related. It seems unlikely that it is an organised group. It is more likely a spotty teenager.

'The level of disruption caused means that airports across the world have to learn from this. How was someone able to close down a major airport for more than 36 hours.
He might be right but if it is a 'spotty teenager', which I doubt, I shudder to think what an organised terror cell could do. If I were the airport authority, MoD, or whatever, I would pay that 'spotty teenager' to be on my side, much as it goes against the grain not to mete out the most severe penalty the law permits.

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Re: Drones - a hazard to aviation?

#68 Post by Alisoncc » Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:44 am

Breaking news here is that the Police have apprehended the culprits. It appears maximum sentence is just five years. Surely with the level of disruption there must be some way of classifying it as terrorist related. Put them away for decades.

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Re: Drones - a hazard to aviation?

#69 Post by Ex-Ascot » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:05 pm

Yes indeed Alison, I was about to post along the very same lines. A good prosecution barrister should be able to get them for more than illegal flying of drones near an airport. Not my area of law but thinking along the lines of disruption or endangering air traffic and as you say terrorist activity. Also what about private cases by the passengers working as a syndicate for loss of monies. Can't believe that the ambulance chasing no win no fee lawyers are not on to this already.
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Re: Drones - a hazard to aviation?

#70 Post by ian16th » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:14 pm

Ex-Ascot wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:05 pm
Also what about private cases by the passengers working as a syndicate for loss of monies. Can't believe that the ambulance chasing no win no fee lawyers are not on to this already.
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Re: Drones - a hazard to aviation?

#71 Post by Capetonian » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:24 pm

A man and a woman have been arrested in connection with the "criminal use of drones" which sparked chaos for three days at Gatwick Airport.

Sussex police said the 47-year-old man and 54-year-old woman, both from Crawley, were arrested in the town on suspicion of disrupting services of civil aviation aerodrome to endanger or likely to endanger safety of operations or persons.
They're not spotty teenagers then, but I am quite sure they will have no assets or income. As 'environmental activists', they’re probably vegan, lentil munching, yurt dwelling, sandal wearing socialists living on benefits in a pokey council flat in Langley Green.

Highly unlikely to even have the resources for legal defence, never mind repaying the cost of the disruption they’ve caused.

If they get the maximum 5 years in prison, it is a laughably inadequate punishment, which serves no useful purpose in making them repay their debt to the airlines, passengers, airport operators, and other entities who have suffered loss and inconvenience. Mind you living in Crawley could be considered as punishment!

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Re: Drones - a hazard to aviation?

#72 Post by Boac » Sat Dec 22, 2018 5:31 pm

No 1 son (who 'drones on' a bit) reckons his machine, with Litchi, would cover around 14nm on a full charge. Up to 500mtrs (it would be 'invisible'), disable geo-fencing and drop down to 100mtrs over an airport. Programme it to land near an accomplice, stick it in your back-pack and cycle off.

I think (hope) people are now really taking this seriously. The power of disruption a half-dozen across the UK could do is unthinkable.

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Re: Drones - a hazard to aviation?

#73 Post by CharlieOneSix » Sat Dec 22, 2018 5:44 pm

Ex-Ascot wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:05 pm
.......A good prosecution barrister should be able to get them for more than illegal flying of drones near an airport.....
I'm sure it will be the CAA who prosecute as it was a breach of the Air Navigation (Amendment) Order 2018 Article 94B.
Small unmanned aircraft: restrictions on flights that are over or near aerodromes

94B.—(1) This article applies to a flight by a small unmanned aircraft within the flight restriction zone of a protected aerodrome.

(2) The “flight restriction zone” of a protected aerodrome consists of the following two zones—

(a)the “Inner Zone”, which is the area within, and including, the boundary of the aerodrome;

(b)the “Outer Zone”, which is the area between—

(i)the boundary of the aerodrome, and

(ii)a line that is 1 km from the boundary of the aerodrome (the “1 km line”).
Then follows a large table which basically says you can't fly in the Inner and Outer Zones without permission of the ATC Unit at the aerodrome.
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Re: Drones - a hazard to aviation?

#74 Post by CharlieOneSix » Sat Dec 22, 2018 5:55 pm

Boac wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 5:31 pm
No 1 son (who 'drones on' a bit) reckons his machine, with Litchi, would cover around 14nm on a full charge. Up to 500mtrs (it would be 'invisible'), disable geo-fencing and drop down to 100mtrs over an airport. Programme it to land near an accomplice, stick it in your back-pack and cycle off......
Yep, would agree with all that - 20-22 minutes airborne is achievable with my now relatively old Phantom 3 - in theory anyway, I've never been that long airborne. At a high power 30mph groundspeed transit you probably won't get more than 15-18 minutes.
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Re: Drones - a hazard to aviation?

#75 Post by Boac » Sat Dec 22, 2018 5:57 pm

C16 wrote:I'm sure it will be the CAA who prosecute
Yes, but what would be the punishment for that? Loss of licence - ho ho. A fine - ho ho. No. I'd go for a full jugular sort of 'endangering life' if there is such a crime.

I just hope they catch the right people.

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Re: Drones - a hazard to aviation?

#76 Post by CharlieOneSix » Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:31 pm

If the perpetrators don't get the full five years there will be an outcry. Mrs C16 tells me that the suspect male's boss says it couldn't have been him as he was working at the time. He's a window fitter - what work do they do in the dark? His missus could be flying the daylight infringements.
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Re: Drones - a hazard to aviation?

#77 Post by Boac » Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:35 pm

I have this nagging feeling that these two are 'deflectors' who maybe flew a drone at 2200 'somewhere near' Gatwick and unless the plod can put it all together from the house search will be released without charge.

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Re: Drones - a hazard to aviation?

#78 Post by Boac » Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:40 am

Released without charge.

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Re: Drones - a hazard to aviation?

#79 Post by 4mastacker » Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:01 pm

I bet some solicitor is now rubbing his hands in view of the naming of this couple in some "newspapers".
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Re: Drones - a hazard to aviation?

#80 Post by Capetonian » Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:17 pm

Whilst I am sorry for the innocent couple and their families, I've no doubt they'll dine out on the story and make a few bob out of it.

What really matters is that the culprit/s is/are still at large and nor has their equipment been impounded or neutralised. No doubt there will be a repeat performance.

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