Missiles.

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AtomKraft
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Re: Missiles.

#21 Post by AtomKraft » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:55 am

He's not gone far.....

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Re: Missiles.

#22 Post by Boac » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:01 am

I know that. :))

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Re: Missiles.

#23 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:43 am

AtomKraft wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:51 pm
Project Pluto.

What has been learned, cannot easily be unlearned. The Russkis are romoured to be trying this, or a variant of, again.

Perhaps underwater???
Project Pluto was an endeavour that was marked by madness, perversity and moments of sheer technical genius that was curtailed by the Pentagon because, even, they realised that this project went one step beyond.
It’s hard to know exactly what happened on August 8, when an accident offshore of the Nenoksa Missile Test Site in northern Russia caused an explosion. But we do know that it left five Russian nuclear scientists dead and caused a spike in radiation levels in the surrounding area. The available evidence has led some US intelligence officials, arms control experts, and President Trump to conclude that the Russians were testing an engine for a nuclear-powered cruise missile (though there are skeptics).

If the suspicions are correct, then this accident (and prior setbacks) show that the Russian quest for a nuclear-powered cruise missile may be a quixotic one. Before pressing on, Vladimir Putin would be well-advised to review some of the myriad problems that the United States’ own nuclear-powered cruise missile program, Project Pluto, experienced in the late-1950s and early-1960s. Below is a brief overview of the technical, environmental, and political challenges that Project Pluto faced.
Project Pluto and the trouble with Russia’s nuclear-powered cruise missile - NB: note the link to the Osti paper therein.

Reverting to Pluto, it is hard to know what US citizens would have thought of low level tests of a cruise missile emitting a highly radioactive plume while producing a hypersonic boom that would have damaged walls, smashed windows and burst eardrums in up to a 20 mile cone behind the missile at about Mach 3.5! What the USA thought its allies might have thought of such a missile being released over their territory in the case of its actual use is a moot one.

The extraordinary thing is that under the auspices of the Lawrence Radiation Lab, Lawrence Livermore National Labs and the US Atomic Energy and a small consortium of aviation (and other - see below) companies, a nuclear powered ram-jet was constructed and even run at full throttle for a few minutes.

Project Pluto

The design of the engine code named Tory was an interesting one, utilising a novel ceramic core with fuel elements manufactured by

CoorsTek (a company related to the Coors bad beer buggers).
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Re: Missiles.

#24 Post by AtomKraft » Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:14 am

Although Pluto was a dreadful weapon, and a thoroughly bad idea- it was a hell of a missile!

It's the wrong sort of creativity, but even destructive creativity on this level has a sort of merit.

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Re: Missiles.

#25 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:22 am

AtomKraft wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:14 am
Although Pluto was a dreadful weapon, and a thoroughly bad idea- it was a hell of a missile!

It's the wrong sort of creativity, but even destructive creativity on this level has a sort of merit.
I agree Atom and one very useful by-product of the aborted project was the development of a very sophisticated inertial navigation system.
A second major advantage is a very high guidance accuracy rating for the low-altitude vehicle, even better accuracy than is being attributed today to the inertially guided ICBM. The system consists of a pro­grammed inertial system which is corrected at regular intervals by measuring the differences in height of prominent terrain features along the vehicle’s route. Distances from the vehicle to the geographic features also are measured, and the distance and height dif­ferential information is fed into a computer which de­termines the vehicle’s exact position and corrects the inertial system.

Ling-Temco-Vought, Inc., developers of the equipment for correcting an inertial-guidance package, already have tested it successfully in flight under all-weather conditions.
https://www.airforcemag.com/article/0764pluto/
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Re: Missiles - Russians test satellite destroyer

#26 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:37 am

Russia tested an anti-satellite rocket on April 15, 2020, U.S. Space Command announced.

The test of the PL-19 Nudol, a so-called “direct-ascent anti-satellite” weapon, highlights Russia’s expanding space arsenal, according to Gen. John Raymond, Space Command commander.

“Russia’s DA-ASAT test provides yet another example that the threats to U.S. and allied space systems are real, serious and growing,” Raymond.

Observers expected the April 2020 trial. It was just the latest in a series of tests of the PL-19. Russia last launched a Nudol rocket back in December 2018.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ ... ler-144797

https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/15/2122 ... ol-missile

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Re: Missiles.

#27 Post by AtomKraft » Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:28 pm

Cracking vid, Gob.
Reminds me of Sprint, including that early pointing, but doesn't seem so fast?
Might just be the camera angle though....

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Re: Missiles.

#28 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:22 am

AtomKraft wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:28 pm
Cracking vid, Gob.
Reminds me of Sprint, including that early pointing, but doesn't seem so fast?
Might just be the camera angle though....
Atom, you are a missile man at heart! :-bd

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Re: Missiles.

#29 Post by AtomKraft » Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:33 am

What! You drank bleach?
Surely not Gobbers! I have you down as a discerning if enthusiastic gargler. 👊

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Re: Missiles.

#30 Post by AtomKraft » Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:59 am

A little more on Project Pluto.
This is part two of five, part one was mainly background. This starts as they got ready to test the nuclear engine.


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Re: Missiles.

#31 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:08 am

AtomKraft wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:33 am
What! You drank bleach?
Surely not Gobbers! I have you down as a discerning if enthusiastic gargler. 👊
I quoted the wrong chemical compound after a gargle there Atom. Whereas gargling is good, Ammonium perchlorate not so good.
The development programme was getting well advanced about then, with full-scale rockets being tested and at a new secret test facility near Rooi Els.
Used to live in the area and the ground water was found to be heavily contaminated with ammonium perchlorate. Upshot or moral of the story is that one should drink one's whisky neat... ;)))

Medium term exposure to ammonium perchlorate results in thyroid issues, something that a daily thyroxine tablet usually can fix.

Interestingly that facility was also linked indirectly to the Helderberg crash.

https://www.gov.za/sites/default/files/ ... rberg0.pdf
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Re: Missiles.

#32 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:30 am

Also don't live too close to a plant that makes the same as these folks in the USA discovered.

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Missiles - Iran launches first military satellite

#33 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:55 am

Iran has claimed it has put its first military satellite into orbit, further raising tensions with the US at a time the two countries are already facing off in the Persian Gulf.

Iran’s Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) said the satellite “Noor” (Light) was in a 425km (264 miles) high orbit, after a successful launch. Iran launched its first civilian satellite in 2009.

The Pentagon said it was too early to say whether the Iranian satellite launch had been successful but the North American Aerospace Defence Command (NORAD) issued a new code designator for an orbiting object which appeared consistent with Noor.

“I consider that this confirms that the Iranian satellite successfully reached orbit,” Jonathan McDowell, an astronomer at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics.

The Noor satellite was launched by a three-stage rocket which the IRGC said was powered by a combination of solid and liquid fuels.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... oats-trump
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Re: Missiles.

#34 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:52 pm

I was reading about the Großvater of guided missile systems, or directed stand off munitions if you will, as it was more a guided (smart) bomb, last night in the form of the Fritz-X

Fritz-X

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Re: Missiles.

#35 Post by ian16th » Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:53 pm

Was this the thing that sank a US ship with hundreds of US troops lost?
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Re: Missiles.

#36 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:51 pm

ian16th wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:53 pm
Was this the thing that sank a US ship with hundreds of US troops lost?
Sadly so ian16th and ripped the heart out of a famous British ship too.
On 9 September, the Luftwaffe achieved their greatest success with the weapon. After Pietro Badoglio publicly announced the Italian armistice with the Allies on 8 September 1943, the Italian fleet had steamed out from La Spezia and headed to Tunisia. To prevent the ships from falling into Allied hands, six Do 217K-2s from III. Gruppe of KG 100 (III/KG 100) took off, each carrying a single Fritz X. The Italian battleship Roma, flagship of the Italian fleet, received two hits and one near miss, and sank after her magazines exploded. 1,393 men, including Admiral Carlo Bergamini, died. Her sister ship, Italia, was also seriously damaged but reached Tunisia.

The American light cruiser USS Savannah was hit by Fritz Xs at 10:00 on 11 September 1943 during the invasion of Salerno, and was forced to retire to the United States for eight months-worth of repairs. A single Fritz X passed through the roof of "C" turret and killed the turret crew and a damage control party when it exploded in the lower ammunition handling room. The blast tore a large hole in the ship's bottom, opened a seam in her side, and blew out all fires in her boiler rooms. Savannah lay dead in the water with her forecastle nearly awash, and eight hours elapsed before her boilers were relit for the Savannah to get underway for Malta. USS Savannah lost 197 crewmen in this attack. Fifteen other sailors were seriously wounded, and four more were trapped in a watertight compartment for 60 hours. These four sailors were not rescued until Savannah had already arrived at Grand Harbor, Valletta, Malta on 12 September.

Savannah's sister ship, USS Philadelphia, had been targeted earlier that same morning. While it is often believed the ship was hit by a Fritz X, in fact the bomb just missed the ship, exploding about 15 meters away. Damage was minimal.

The Royal Navy's light cruiser HMS Uganda was hit by a Fritz X off Salerno at 14:40 on 13 September. The Fritz X passed through seven decks and straight through her keel, exploding underwater just under the keel. The concussive shock of the Fritz X's underwater detonation close to Uganda's hull extinguished all her boiler fires, and resulted in sixteen men being killed, with Uganda taking on 1,300 tons of water. Uganda was towed to Malta for repairs.
From Wiki
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Re: Missiles.

#37 Post by Undried Plum » Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:57 am

TheGreenGoblin wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:08 am
Interestingly that facility was also linked indirectly to the Helderberg crash.
I worked on the seabed search and recovery of Helderberg.

I'm busy right now, but this evening I'll write a wee piece explaining why we nicknamed our deep tow side-scan sonar winch Mistletoe.

There's an awful lot about Helderberg and its cargo which has never been exposed to the light of day. For example, I still don't know why our very expensive work for SupSalv was funded by the CIA and not the DoD.

More, later.

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Re: Missiles.

#38 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:59 am

Undried Plum wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:57 am
TheGreenGoblin wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:08 am
Interestingly that facility was also linked indirectly to the Helderberg crash.
I worked on the seabed search and recovery of Helderberg.

I'm busy right now, but this evening I'll write a wee piece explaining why we nicknamed our deep tow side-scan sonar winch Mistletoe.

There's an awful lot about Helderberg and its cargo which has never been exposed to the light of day. For example, I still don't know why our very expensive work for SupSalv was funded by the CIA and not the DoD.

More, later.
I look forward to reading your insight into this disaster UP. I do know that there was a strong suspicion/rumour that the aircraft was carrying items deemed necessary for the atomic bomb programme in SA.
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Re: Missiles.

#39 Post by ian16th » Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:02 am

TheGreenGoblin wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:59 am
Undried Plum wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:57 am
TheGreenGoblin wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:08 am
Interestingly that facility was also linked indirectly to the Helderberg crash.
I worked on the seabed search and recovery of Helderberg.

I'm busy right now, but this evening I'll write a wee piece explaining why we nicknamed our deep tow side-scan sonar winch Mistletoe.

There's an awful lot about Helderberg and its cargo which has never been exposed to the light of day. For example, I still don't know why our very expensive work for SupSalv was funded by the CIA and not the DoD.

More, later.
I look forward to reading your fascinating insight into this disaster UP.
+1
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VC 10 as a missile launcher?

#40 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat May 02, 2020 4:59 pm

I was reading that ops-normal's favourite airliner might very well have been used as a ALBM vehicle carrying the GAM-87 Skybolt
The operational force envisaged is 42 VC 10s, equipped with six Skybolts, operating at an annual rate of 3,200 hours per aircraft, with 15 aircraft permanently airborne. In conjunction with the Air Staff, we have made a series of planning assumptions namely:— no dispersal of the aircraft is needed; no overseas deployment is envisaged; the force would have a single role only, i.e. as a Skybolt carrier; the 4 Vulcan/Skybolt bases are available for the VC 10 force; there is no requirement for short runway or emergency overload take-offs and the nature of the operational flying can be regarded as comparable with the VC 10 civil counterpart; the first squadron is required to be in service by 1971; a tanker force of 24 Victors would be available and would be used solely for VC 10 refuelling. A flight refuelled sortie would last for nine hours.

Carrying six missiles would mean a considerable redesign of the aircraft. The engines in the VC 10 were mounted at the rear of the fuselage, and the wings were free from encumbrances. To take the weight of the missiles, they would need to be strengthened quite considerably, and adding fuel tanks on the wing tips would mean strengthening the wings still further. This would also increase the take-off weight of the aircraft. Vickers’ brochure for the design shows that it would need to be refuelled at least once during a twelve-hour patrol. This was the scheme put forward to carry the deterrent in the 1970s when the V bombers would be reaching the end of their fatigue life. As part of the scheme, standing patrols were envisaged, which could be stepped up in what were referred to as times of tension. The Air Staff estimated that a force of thirty-six VC 10s could maintain an airborne patrol force of about fifteen aircraft for a period of a little over a week.
Hill, Nicholas. Skybolt: At Arms Length .

If the Vulcan had not been chosen to fulfill this role completely, and the Skybolt project cancelled, is it possible that a certain ex-Captain here would have had to have forsaken his role as an aerial charabanc and VC10 wrangler to royalty, for that of a steely eyed missile man?


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