The Traitorous 8

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TheGreenGoblin
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The Traitorous 8

#1 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:58 pm

The story of the microchip, the CPU and the rise and plateauing of Intel.

The Rise



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Re: The Traitorous 8

#2 Post by Boac » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:02 pm

Very interesting stuff - thanks. Early background history.

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Re: The Traitorous 8

#3 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:13 pm

Here is the second part for those who are interested.

Depressed, feeling a slump, then remember Lift = Coefficient of Lift x 1/2 x ρ x V-squared X S!

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Re: The Traitorous 8

#4 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:16 pm

Boac wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:02 pm
Very interesting stuff - thanks. Early background history.
I am glad you enjoyed it Boac. His book is worth a read as well.
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Re: The Traitorous 8

#5 Post by Undried Plum » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:24 pm

A classic example of a Company whose future is behind it!

It's incredible that Intel's share price is at $55. I sold mine in April 2019 - for $55!

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Re: The Traitorous 8

#6 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:21 pm

Undried Plum wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:24 pm
A classic example of a Company whose future is behind it!

It's incredible that Intel's share price is at $55. I sold mine in April 2019 - for $55!
Did you transfer your holiding to ARM? A British success story that this country should cherish and not allow to be sold to vultures for short term gain.
Sophie Mary Wilson CBE FRS FREng DistFBCS (born 1957) is an English computer scientist, who helped design the BBC Micro and ARM architecture.

Wilson first designed a microcomputer during a break from studies at Selwyn College, Cambridge. She subsequently joined Acorn Computers and was instrumental in designing the BBC Micro, including the BBC BASIC programming language whose development she led for the next 15 years. She first began designing the ARM reduced instruction set computer (RISC) in 1983, which entered production two years later. It became popular in embedded systems and is now the most widely used processor architecture in smartphones. Wilson is currently a director at the technology conglomerate Broadcom Inc. In 2011, she was listed in Maximum PC as number 8 in an article titled "The 15 Most Important Women in Tech History". She was made a Commander of the British Empire in 2019.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie_Wilson

http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/ ... ie-Wilson/

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Re: The Traitorous 8

#7 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:29 pm



Depressed, feeling a slump, then remember Lift = Coefficient of Lift x 1/2 x ρ x V-squared X S!

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Re: The Traitorous 8

#8 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:48 pm



Depressed, feeling a slump, then remember Lift = Coefficient of Lift x 1/2 x ρ x V-squared X S!

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Re: The Traitorous 8

#9 Post by llondel » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:38 pm

I have an old Archimedes computer buried in a box somewhere, that's got to have a really early ARM chip in it.

As for Intel, I have to admit that the last time I put together a PC was back in 2014 and now I'm thinking of another one and wondering about using an AMD processor. I did go through a spell of using Athlon and Duron chips but moved back to Intel because at that time their chips ran cooler.

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Re: The Traitorous 8

#10 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:53 am

llondel wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:38 pm
I have an old Archimedes computer buried in a box somewhere, that's got to have a really early ARM chip in it.

As for Intel, I have to admit that the last time I put together a PC was back in 2014 and now I'm thinking of another one and wondering about using an AMD processor. I did go through a spell of using Athlon and Duron chips but moved back to Intel because at that time their chips ran cooler.
You defnitely needed that heat sink with the Athlon and Duron ranges, plus the fan and seriously wanted water cooling, however since AMD have outsourced the manufacture of their chips, initially, to Global Foundries, now including TSMC (at the 7 nm die scale) and, potentially, Samsung, they have moved forward in a big way. From a home computer builder's perspective, the Ryzen chip set is a very good option to use.

The Archimedes was such a clever design, using the RISC paradigm to run very cool at low power. The paradigm is perfect for the mobile, tablet and embedded processor era. IBM invented the RISC concept and then, some might say belatedly, developed their own range with the PowerPC chipset (produced in conjunction with Motorola and Apple). These chips appeared in anything from the AS400 (i-Series) and IBM's high end servers. IBM's John Cocke was a genius and deserves a shout out here.
Depressed, feeling a slump, then remember Lift = Coefficient of Lift x 1/2 x ρ x V-squared X S!

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Re: The Traitorous 8

#11 Post by Undried Plum » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:26 am

TheGreenGoblin wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:21 pm
Did you transfer your holiding to ARM? A British success story that this country should cherish and not allow to be sold to vultures for short term gain.
I bought into ARM decades ago as a result of being so impressed by Herman Hauser's BBC Micro. When he started explaining why his RISC set was so important to the future of microelectronics I was an early retail investor. It turned out to be a cracking good investment for nigh on 30 years. I only bailed out of Softbank in March this year and put the capital into gold.

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Re: The Traitorous 8

#12 Post by Undried Plum » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:34 am

The crookery of Intel is deeply emetic; and quite common in America's tech sector. When they started to lose market share, they simply lied.

Theranos is another example of that culture. I could so easily have got sucked into investing in that crap if it hadn't been for my doctor daughter pointing out that such a machine is totally impossible with today's known technology. She also pointed out that the chief crookster in that scam had an obviously false deep voice that is totally unnatural in such a young woman and an indicator of a Walter Mitty type fakester.





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Re: The Traitorous 8

#13 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:21 am

Undried Plum wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:34 am
The crookery of Intel is deeply emetic; and quite common in America's tech sector. When they started to lose market share, they simply lied.

Theranos is another example of that culture. I could so easily have got sucked into investing in that crap if it hadn't been for my doctor daughter pointing out that such a machine is totally impossible with today's known technology. She also pointed out that the chief crookster in that scam had an obviously false deep voice that is totally unnatural in such a young woman and an indicator of a Walter Mitty type fakester.
I read about the Theranos Scam (or cult) and the sociopathic Elizabeth Holmes some years back. The book is well worth a read...
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Re: The Traitorous 8

#14 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:26 am

Undried Plum wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:26 am
TheGreenGoblin wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:21 pm
Did you transfer your holiding to ARM? A British success story that this country should cherish and not allow to be sold to vultures for short term gain.
I bought into ARM decades ago as a result of being so impressed by Herman Hauser's BBC Micro. When he started explaining why his RISC set was so important to the future of microelectronics I was an early retail investor. It turned out to be a cracking good investment for nigh on 30 years. I only bailed out of Softbank in March this year and put the capital into gold.


The term men is accurate in that Sophie Wilson (who makes a cameo appearance as a bar lady in the TV dramatisation) only had gender reassignment surgery in the post BBC era.

Well worth watching, and is wryly amusing from the off (vide. the comment about Sinclair and the National Enterprise board suggesting the company produce a portable television,not imagining what Sinclair had actually invisaged), and should be watched by anybody who wants to know what happened to Britain PLC in the early computer/technology market in the 80's.
Depressed, feeling a slump, then remember Lift = Coefficient of Lift x 1/2 x ρ x V-squared X S!

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Re: The Traitorous 8

#15 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:27 pm

TheGreenGoblin wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:26 am

Well worth watching, and is wryly amusing from the off (vide. the comment about Sinclair and the National Enterprise board suggesting the company produce a portable television,not imagining what Sinclair had actually invisaged), and should be watched by anybody who wants to know what happened to Britain PLC in the early computer/technology market in the 80's.
It does, before anybody beats me up, make up some things for dramatic effect. Clive Sinclair hated Micro Men. :)

At the risk of biting my tongue, which is firmly in my cheek, while chuckling, I must ask UP if he was a Sinclair fan, SInclair being an electric car fan too? =)) ;)))




The advert is a classic...
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Re: The Traitorous 8

#16 Post by Undried Plum » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:09 pm

TheGreenGoblin wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:27 pm
At the risk of biting my tongue, which is firmly in my cheek, while chuckling, I must ask UP if he was a Sinclair fan, SInclair being an electric car fan too? =)) ;)))
I remember hearing about that fukkn thing when I was working in Egypt. I sent for a brochure and as soon as I got back to the UK I visited an electricity showroom (remember them?) to look at a pre-release specimen. The damn thing was about knee high. The idea of putting that thing on a public road would give you the heebiejeebies.

I bought one of the first Sinclair Z88s and tried to interface it to an automatic tide gauge and process the data in real time to produce the harmonic constituents instantaneously. AFIK that had never been done before and I knew that it would incredibly useful. I was puzzled that I couldn't get the RS232 D-type connector communicate with the gauge. I had wired the thing correctly, but I just couldn't get the fekkin thing to work at all.

In desperation, I phoned the Company in Cambridge. The receptionist put me through to someone who she thought could help. The guy who answered had that very familiar deep voice. He explained that there was a known grounding problem with the RS232 and he suggested that I solder a connection from pin 5 (I think it was) to the metal part of the socket and said that if that didn't work I should call back and ask for himself. I asked what name I should ask for. Clive.

I had to bite my tongue so as not to ask him whatthefuck were you thinking of with that damn car?

I never did buy one. A C5, that is. His idea that one day electric cars would be normal was right though. For months after I bought my Tesla people would ask if was any better than a C5!

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Re: The Traitorous 8

#17 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:42 pm

Undried Plum wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:09 pm
TheGreenGoblin wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:27 pm
At the risk of biting my tongue, which is firmly in my cheek, while chuckling, I must ask UP if he was a Sinclair fan, SInclair being an electric car fan too? =)) ;)))
I remember hearing about that fukkn thing when I was working in Egypt. I sent for a brochure and as soon as I got back to the UK I visited an electricity showroom (remember them?) to look at a pre-release specimen. The damn thing was about knee high. The idea of putting that thing on a public road would give you the heebiejeebies.

I bought one of the first Sinclair Z88s and tried to interface it to an automatic tide gauge and process the data in real time to produce the harmonic constituents instantaneously. AFIK that had never been done before and I knew that it would incredibly useful. I was puzzled that I couldn't get the RS232 D-type connector communicate with the gauge. I had wired the thing correctly, but I just couldn't get the fekkin thing to work at all.

In desperation, I phoned the Company in Cambridge. The receptionist put me through to someone who she thought could help. The guy who answered had that very familiar deep voice. He explained that there was a known grounding problem with the RS232 and he suggested that I solder a connection from pin 5 (I think it was) to the metal part of the socket and said that if that didn't work I should call back and ask for himself. I asked what name I should ask for. Clive.

I had to bite my tongue so as not to ask him whatthefuck were you thinking of with that damn car?

I never did buy one. A C5, that is. His idea that one day electric cars would be normal was right though. For months after I bought my Tesla people would ask if was any better than a C5!
Never used the Sinclair Z88, although I have progammed the Zilog 80 chip in assembler in other lives, but also had a lot of experience of connecting kit in the hydrolab at the manufacturer I was working for, using the UART (RS232 standard) on the BBC micro, which was a real dodddle to use, progamming the connection using 6502 assembler (or even BBC basic). I even connected a bank of BBC's in the lab to the company's AS400 so that the data could be integrated with the Bill of Materials while they were doing R&D. Happy daze. :)
Depressed, feeling a slump, then remember Lift = Coefficient of Lift x 1/2 x ρ x V-squared X S!

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Re: The Traitorous 8

#18 Post by Undried Plum » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:50 pm

The Z88 was a wee cracker of a thing in its day (1987). An A4 sized tablet with a very clever UI which blurred the distinction between a spreadsheet and a wordprocessor. It would run BBC Basic so it was an absolute doddle to program. My harmonic analysis of tidal data in real time routine was a great success which I was unable to exploit commercially for contractual reasons.

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Re: The Traitorous 8

#19 Post by llondel » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:51 pm

I sat in a C5 once (turns out my uni developed the power electronics for the motors, so we had one on-site). It helped me understand why people look like complete prats when riding on them, because I felt like one.

I think they've turned into a bit of a cult now, people race them with upgraded drivetrains. That sounds more like fun, sort of like go-karts but with way less stability.

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Re: The Traitorous 8

#20 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:29 pm

llondel wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:51 pm
I sat in a C5 once (turns out my uni developed the power electronics for the motors, so we had one on-site). It helped me understand why people look like complete prats when riding on them, because I felt like one.

I think they've turned into a bit of a cult now, people race them with upgraded drivetrains. That sounds more like fun, sort of like go-karts but with way less stability.


as opposed to...



Lunar module rocket engine... hydrogen peroxide...

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=347996
Depressed, feeling a slump, then remember Lift = Coefficient of Lift x 1/2 x ρ x V-squared X S!

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