Circular runways

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Capetonian

Circular runways

#1 Post by Capetonian » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:52 am

I am interested to know what those of you who sit in the pointy end think of this idea. Clearly it has some merit, but is it sound enough to fly, if you'll pardon the pun.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-39284294

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Re: Circular runways

#2 Post by ian16th » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:51 am

Knowing more about navaids than flying the beasts, I am very aware that just about everything, such as glide paths, is designed to work in straight lines.

So I'd say it was a big no-no.

But if anyone should want to try, might I suggest the the Fleet Air Arm start with it, after all didn't they invent the curved approach during WWII?
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Re: Circular runways

#3 Post by Cpt_Pugwash » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:45 pm

Surely landing onto a moving conveyor belt would be easier? :-)

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Re: Circular runways

#4 Post by Alisoncc » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:44 am

Something like a mobius strip hanging from a sky hook in space.
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Re: Circular runways

#5 Post by ian16th » Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:21 am

Alisoncc wrote:Something like a mobius strip hanging from a sky hook in space.


Didn't the Americans try the Skyhook idea with a baby jet and a B-52?
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Re: Circular runways

#6 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:04 am

Look forward to the increase in runway excursions - off the outside edge !

Plenty of opportunity for pod-scrapes, too - has the guy no idea how an aircraft flies a circular path ?

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Re: Circular runways

#7 Post by unifoxos » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:00 am

If the track is banked so that there is no lateral force on the gear, the faster the a/c goes the greater the centrifugal force holding it down - so it has to go faster - so the force goes up ....
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Re: Circular runways

#8 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:53 am

Ain't science wonderful ?

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Re: Circular runways

#9 Post by ian16th » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:29 am

unifoxos wrote:If the track is banked so that there is no lateral force on the gear, the faster the a/c goes the greater the centrifugal force holding it down - so it has to go faster - so the force goes up ....

Wot about the lifting effect of those things sticking out of the sides, I think that they are called 'wings'?
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Re: Circular runways

#10 Post by Boac » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:34 am

As we are getting closer to 1/4, may I chip in the need for a concave surface to allow for a balance of forces with increasing speeds? Will we finish up with a sort of 'Wall of death' track for the heavies?

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Re: Circular runways

#11 Post by Slasher » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:14 am

...Having had only a brief look at the Physics equations it seems theoretically viable to a point, but I suspect very heavy reliance on advanced computerization will be needed on the part of the aircraft. These algorithms(?) as yet do not exist - and that's just for normal ops. EO/Rejected case is whole different ball game.

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Re: Circular runways

#12 Post by unifoxos » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:28 am

Wot about the lifting effect of those things sticking out of the sides, I think that they are called 'wings'?

If the runway was flat there would be incredible lateral force on the gear as you approach take-off speed, and as soon as this is achieved the a/c will suddenly spring sideways. I remember having the pleasure of being driven round the test track at MIRA by Norman Dewis when the E-type Jaguar forst came out. On the banked track at 150 mph I reckon I was getting about 2G. Can the gear take this sort of force?

If not then what BOAC just said applies, but the faster you go the more G you get and the more lift you require unless you let the a/c fly off the top of the bowl. Be better on a conveyor belt.
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Re: Circular runways

#13 Post by OFSO » Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:01 pm

If the runway was flat there would be incredible lateral force on the gear as you approach take-off speed, and as soon as this is achieved the a/c will suddenly spring sideways.

The answer to this is that the runway should be built like the old 'wall of death' at fairgrounds, i.e. a circular runway sloping up into a drum configuration. As the aircraft speeded up they would rise up the interior sidewall until when V whatever was reached they could pop out of the top. This would also contain engine noise and provide passengers with an interesting high G experience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5ZtnIi7W0g

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Re: Circular runways

#14 Post by Boac » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:50 pm

Good thinking, OFSO................where DID you get that idea? =))

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Re: Circular runways

#15 Post by unifoxos » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:30 am

Good thinking, OFSO................where DID you get that idea?

Presumably not from your or my posts. I guess we must BOTH be on his ignore list.
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Re: Circular runways

#16 Post by OFSO » Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:04 pm

Frankly you chaps I've never understood why aircraft flying east-west ever need to travel anywhere. Surely all they need to do is go up and hang around for a bit: wait for the earth's rotation to bring their destination right underneath them and then zoom down and land on it.

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Re: Circular runways

#17 Post by unifoxos » Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:23 am

Yes, but it's quicker to use power - the aircraft speed adds to the earth's rotation making the journey time shorter. You have to use a lot more power going the other way, though to counteract the effect.
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Re: Circular runways

#18 Post by OFSO » Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:17 pm

Since the earth is just a huge electric motor, wouldn't coils instead of wings provide lift and propulsion ? I seem to remember Dan Dare's personal spaceship the "Anastasia" had something like that.

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Re: Circular runways

#19 Post by Boac » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:06 pm

The nutter who started this latest round of madness, Henk Hesselink, has said this:

"Obviously, as we are making a turn during the landing, the ILS (Instrument Landing System) will not function. But we may be able to use an ILS-system for part of the approach phase, the first part is still straight-in.

Either we put a simple form of ILS on each direction of the runway, or we can install a movable ILS-system that will move around the runway, for example on a rail-track . It is a bit far-fetched, I know."

At least he knows. I suspect an overdose of 'Wacky Bakky'?

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