Missiles.

Message
Author
AtomKraft
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 2549
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:05 am
Location: Planet Claire
Gender:
Age: 63

Missiles.

#1 Post by AtomKraft » Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:29 pm

Always a tricky subject, for obvious reasons, yet fascinating for others.

The SeaSlug was a favourite, but hard to find footage.

Anyways, to top 'em all, here's some Spartan and Sprint footage from the early sixties.

Let all the stuff posted after this be just as good or better. Look at my next post

AtomKraft
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 2549
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:05 am
Location: Planet Claire
Gender:
Age: 63

Re: Missiles.

#2 Post by AtomKraft » Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:40 pm

Watch this:
Cost US taxpayers about the same as Apollo.
Commissioned for ONE DAY.

Technologically, magnificent.

Watch and see where some of your dollars went..

https://youtu.be/5vq4mWyYl2Y

User avatar
Stoneboat
Capt
Capt
Posts: 1947
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:09 pm
Location: 50-13.5N/66-16.0W
Gender:
Age: 77

Re: Missiles.

#3 Post by Stoneboat » Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:35 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCpjgl2baLs

Cacophonix
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 8327
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:14 pm
Location: Wandering

Re: Missiles.

#4 Post by Cacophonix » Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:23 am

All this stuff is interesting but as Stoneboat's video highlights, it will all literally be a dead end!

There are those who maintain that the underlying technology can be used for the good of mankind and that aviation will benefit from the advances originally made in the pursuit of war, pretty much like the jet engine.

People who are developing engines like this, for example...
SABRE (Synergistic Air-Breathing Rocket Engine) is a concept under development by Reaction Engines Limited for a hypersonic precooled hybrid air-breathing rocket engine. The engine is being designed to achieve single-stage-to-orbit capability, propelling the proposed Skylon spaceplane to low Earth orbit. SABRE is an evolution of Alan Bond's series of liquid air cycle engine (LACE) and LACE-like designs that started in the early/mid-1980s for the HOTOL project.

The design comprises a single combined cycle rocket engine with two modes of operation. The air-breathing mode combines a turbo-compressor with a lightweight air precooler positioned just behind the inlet cone. At high speeds this precooler cools the hot, ram-compressed air leading to a very high pressure ratio within the engine. The compressed air is subsequently fed into the rocket combustion chamber where it is ignited along with stored liquid hydrogen. The high pressure ratio allows the engine to provide high thrust at very high speeds and altitudes. The low temperature of the air permits light alloy construction to be employed and allow a very lightweight engine—essential for reaching orbit. In addition, unlike the LACE concept, SABRE's precooler does not liquefy the air, letting it run more efficiently.

After shutting the inlet cone off at Mach 5.14, 28.5 km altitude, the system continues as a closed-cycle high-performance rocket engine burning liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen from on-board fuel tanks, potentially allowing a hybrid spaceplane concept like Skylon to reach orbital velocity after leaving the atmosphere on a steep climb.

An engine derived from the SABRE concept called Scimitar has been designed for the company's A2 hypersonic passenger jet proposal for the European Union-funded LAPCAT study.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SABRE_(rocket_engine)

Think of it, with speeds like this one could contact Alisoncc and be in Australia before the words "put some shrimps on the barbie" had even be uttered or something like that!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSEnAB1J4KE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYos3J_8D5Q

While this engine will work eventually I cannot see Skylon being used commercially as an airliner as the economics and risks of this kind of flight and hypersonic de-orbit will militate against it! I would be delighted to be proved wrong though. The engine could definitely be viable in unmanned missions to put satellites etc. into Low Earth Orbit.

The hapless British government will never show the vision or courage and foresight to wholeheartedly support this idea to make a real fist of it though. I see the idea being appropriated by the USA in the form envisaged by companies like SpaceX etc. who are looking laterally at these problems again and succeeding in bringing the total cost of spaceflight and satellite insertion down!


Caco

User avatar
OFSO
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 18597
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:39 pm
Location: Teddington UK and Roses Catalunia
Gender:
Age: 80

Re: Missiles.

#5 Post by OFSO » Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:09 am

Technology would be put to a better use making Alan Bond a more realistic wig.

Cacophonix
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 8327
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:14 pm
Location: Wandering

Re: Missiles.

#6 Post by Cacophonix » Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:24 am

OFSO wrote:Technology would be put to a better use making Alan Bond a more realistic wig.
Sadly I think Mr Bond will make less out of his courageous efforts to develop the SABRE engine than he paid for that syrup unfortunately, such is the current state of funk and vision in so-called "free trading, successful, entrepreneurial Britain"!

Oh well at least we can still bake cakes as one notes ad-nauseam on the television!

Caco

User avatar
ian16th
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 10029
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:35 am
Location: KZN South Coast with the bananas
Gender:
Age: 87

Re: Missiles.

#7 Post by ian16th » Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:55 am

I thought that the Skylon was an, at the time, 'futuristic' piece of art on the South Bank for the 1951 Festival of Britain.
Skylon.jpg
Skylon.jpg (42.64 KiB) Viewed 1427 times
The Wiki page.
Cynicism improves with age

AtomKraft
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 2549
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:05 am
Location: Planet Claire
Gender:
Age: 63

Re: Missiles.

#8 Post by AtomKraft » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:17 am

Here's a very British sporting missile. The Sea Cat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDGkTeVxsOs

User avatar
OFSO
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 18597
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:39 pm
Location: Teddington UK and Roses Catalunia
Gender:
Age: 80

Re: Missiles.

#9 Post by OFSO » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:22 pm

I believe one of the problems with Sprint was ablation of the skin when passing through clouds / rain particles. I wonder if all these years later anyone has built a vehicle capable of faster acceleration.

AtomKraft
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 2549
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:05 am
Location: Planet Claire
Gender:
Age: 63

Re: Missiles.

#10 Post by AtomKraft » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:46 pm

No, I do not think so. But remember, RVs come in at about M 25.

Acceleration wise, Nothing can compare to Sprint, although HiBex promised even more.

Sprints' acceleration was about 100G.

It was a hypersonic missile (ie Mach 5+), look for it becoming incandescent in the film, then think about how they passed the steering commands through the plasma sheath around the missile.

As for Q, dynamic loads, or the thermal thicket, as its sometimes known, the Sprint was able......for a few seconds

The Chinks are looking at steerable RVs, mainly to try to hit ships. That'll take some doing, for sure

AtomKraft
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 2549
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:05 am
Location: Planet Claire
Gender:
Age: 63

Re: Missiles.

#11 Post by AtomKraft » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:10 pm


Cacophonix
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 8327
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:14 pm
Location: Wandering

Re: Missiles.

#12 Post by Cacophonix » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:57 pm

AtomKraft wrote:Watch and learn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSFIkGfbLxs
You missed out the "grasshopper"...

:)

Caco

AtomKraft
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 2549
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:05 am
Location: Planet Claire
Gender:
Age: 63

Re: Missiles.

#13 Post by AtomKraft » Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:34 pm

You know, Cackers, its about time for a beer.

I'm in Astana. Where are you?

Cacophonix
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 8327
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:14 pm
Location: Wandering

Re: Missiles.

#14 Post by Cacophonix » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:43 pm

AtomKraft wrote:You know, Cackers, its about time for a beer.

I'm in Astana. Where are you?
Closest to Kazakhstan I will get this year is Croatia, Atom, unfortunately. Mind you, I have always being careful of places with Stan in the name because my slightly off the wall sense of humour (plus my previously unparalled enjoyment of a good libation) tends to get me deep in the merde in such places, like it did his bloke...!

https://munchies.vice.com/en_us/article ... kyrgyzstan

I love the bloke's name... Michael McFeat (not the Michael mind, which is a noble name and also happens to be mine, but the McFeat, which cracks me up given the poor bloke's dilemma)! Sorry I digress.

Do you ever make it back to the UK? I would be delighted to meet up anywhere within a tank or three in a spam can!

Caco

Cacophonix
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 8327
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:14 pm
Location: Wandering

Re: Missiles.

#15 Post by Cacophonix » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:51 pm

It seems that the while the Sprint missile was the all time kitty when it came to acceleration on this side of the Cold War the Soviet Gazelle was an outstanding accelerator with a terminal velocity approaching Mach 17!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msXtgTVMcuA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK6W0OATveQ

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/53T6

Caco

AtomKraft
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 2549
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:05 am
Location: Planet Claire
Gender:
Age: 63

Re: Missiles.

#16 Post by AtomKraft » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:51 pm

Project Pluto.

What has been learned, cannot easily be unlearned. The Russkis are romoured to be trying this, or a variant of, again.

Perhaps underwater???


AtomKraft
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 2549
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:05 am
Location: Planet Claire
Gender:
Age: 63

Re: Missiles.

#17 Post by AtomKraft » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:53 pm

Cackers.
Probably the fastest mover was HiBex, but even Sprint was reckoned to be supersonic before it left the silo.
Sprint acceleration was c.100G. First stage was exhausted after 1.2 secs. Now that's heave!

They weren't farkin around in those days.

Boac
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17198
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:12 pm
Location: Here

Re: Missiles.

#18 Post by Boac » Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:44 pm

"Cackers." ?? Not keeping up with the times, young man! =))

AtomKraft
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 2549
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:05 am
Location: Planet Claire
Gender:
Age: 63

Re: Missiles.

#19 Post by AtomKraft » Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:13 pm

In this thread, I prefer our original terms.
Me n Cackers have been tacking about this stuff for years.

Boac
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17198
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:12 pm
Location: Here

Re: Missiles.

#20 Post by Boac » Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:20 pm

So - you haven't noticed he ain't here no more, then? Been gorn a while.

Post Reply