Is hydrogen the way forward - ZeroAvia

[TheGreenGoblin]

ZeroAvia Bets On Hydrogen For Electric Air Travel

Zeroavia

Pro's and con's...

[barkingmad]

I refer the honourable gentleman to my post #391 in the WTF...UK thread.

It’s a great idea but the thought that A330s or Dreamliner will be propelled by hydrogen seems in the realms of the “Eagle” comic of the 1950s.

But I’m interested to see how long it will be before Willy Walsh and the Spanish chap leap onto the green credentials bandwagon.

The gaffer of Heathrow has already been interviewed on MSM excitedly forecasting the new dawn.

Imagine the explosion when a hydrogen powered ‘heavy’ piles into terra firma?

[Pontius Navigator]

BM, more of a pop I understand. When the R101 went up it was the fabric burning that caused the problem, so I was told.

[llondel]

One assumes that a hydrogen-powered aircraft would be storing either liquid hydrogen or gas under pressure, so the scope for a bigger bang would be much greater.

[TheGreenGoblin]

Manufacturers, like Boeing among others, have looked at, and are researching the use of hydrogen as a fuel for the future. Hydrogen is explosive and because of that it is likely that the special reinforced fuel tanks would be held behind a bulkhead in the aircraft with concomitant drag inefficiencies due to the larger surface area of the stretched aircraft. While this is sub-optimal, hydrogen has some real advantages in that is is one of the most energy dense fuels by mass (but not by volume) as well as being lighter than existing fuels...

This means that for the same range and performance (ignoring the effect of volume), the hydrogen aircraft would have about one-third of the fuel weight. For a Boeing 747-400 type aircraft, this would reduce the takeoff gross weight from 360,000 to 270,000 kg (800,000 to 600,000 lb). Thus, the performance of a hydrogen-fueled aircraft is a trade-off of the larger wetted area and lower fuel weight. This trade-off depends essentially on the size of the aircraft.

Hydrogen powered aircraft

Light aircraft could be fueled by hydrogen produced by fuel cells which would mitigate the risk of explosions and the need to carry large amounts of liquid or compressed hydrogen.

The biggest downside to hydrogen at the moment is the fact that the infrastructure for producing, storing, transporting and metering and dispensing hydrogen as a fuel is not in place and that the fuel is more expensive. All this would change due to economies of scale and efficiencies if an evolution to hydrogen fuels was to occur over the next 40 years. Only time will tell I guess.

[TheGreenGoblin]

Interestingly hydrogen was mooted as a fuel by the American Defence establishment way back in the 50's for an aircraft in a reconnaissance role.

Lockheed SP-4404 Suntan

[llondel]

I feel I ought to float the idea that just as with airships, helium is way less explosive than hydrogen and that they should use that instead. I'm off to get popcorn to watch what happens next.

[Pontius Navigator]

If stored hydrogen and atmospheric oxygen produce water and electricity, where does the oxygen come from?

[Pontius Navigator]

Llondel, the airship used hydrogen as an air displacement. Helium would work too but marginally less effective. As a fuel however only hydrogen, which is not an inert gas would work.

[Capetonian]

Bill Gates becomes first to buy a £500m hydrogen-powered super yacht

Microsoft co-founder commissions eco vessel expected to go to sea in 2024 in latest sign of his interest in alternative fuels

The software tycoon Bill Gates has commissioned the world’s first hydrogen-powered superyacht, in a £500m signal of his belief that investment in new clean technology is the best way to cut carbon emissions.

The Sunday Telegraph can reveal that the retired 64-year-old is behind the construction of a cutting-edge vessel by the Dutch superyacht specialist Feadship.

The custom build is based on blueprints for the 112-metre design "Aqua" publicised last year at the Monaco Yacht Show by the Dutch marine architects Sinot to draw environmentally sensitive billionaires. It said the plans took “inspiration from the lifestyle of a discerning, forward-looking owner”.

Mr Gates, who co-founded Microsoft and is currently ranked as the world’s second-richest man, is a regular superyacht holidaymaker but has not previously owned his own vessel and has preferred to rent during summer trips around the Mediterranean.

His new vessel, which is scheduled to go to sea in 2024, will not measure up to some of the world’s largest pleasure cruisers, such as the 163-metre Eclipse commissioned by Roman Abramovich, the oligarch and owner of Chelsea football club.

Mr Gates will however gain bragging rights over other ultra-rich seafarers as the owner of the world’s only hydrogen-powered superyacht, which industry sources estimate will cost about half a billion pounds.

The designs for Aqua include two 28-ton vacuum-sealed tanks to store liquid hydrogen at minus 252 Celsius. The fuel will be used to generate power for the two one-megawatt motors and the passengers via fuel cells, which combine hydrogen with oxygen from the air to produce only electricity and water.

Sinot claims the system offers a top speed of 17 knots, cruising speed of 10 to 12 knots and range of 3750 nautical miles, more than enough to cover an Atlantic crossing from New York to Southampton.

The acquisition is the latest sign of Mr Gates's longstanding interest in alternative fuels. He is an investor in Heliogen, a California start-up that uses smart software to control an array of mirrors that focuses the sun’s rays to generate extreme heat. It aims to create a clean source of hydrogen gas by splitting water molecules without the use of fossil fuels.

Most hydrogen is currently produced by processes that rely on fossil fuels and produce carbon dioxide. It is possible, although much more expensive, to use electricity from renewable sources to split water into hydrogen and oxygen.

Mr Gates, who has pledged to give most of his estimated $118bn fortune to good causes via the Gates Foundation, has argued that investment in new energy systems is a better way to cut carbon emissions than forcing investors to pull out of oil companies when the economy must still rely on fossil fuels to some extent.

Last year he said: “By investing in energy innovations, we can build on the progress we’ve made deploying current technology like renewables, which will help accelerate the transition from fossil fuels to a future of reliable and affordable carbon-free electricity.

“We need big breakthroughs in technologies that will allow us to supply the power grid with clean energy even during windless days, cloudy weather, and nighttime.”

Despite Mr Gates’ enthusiasm for hydrogen power, shipbuilding sources said that the plans for his superyacht include diesel back-up due to the scarcity of hydrogen refuelling stations. It is understood the project includes plans to establish facilities at the superyacht’s home port, however.

Mr Gates’s plans for the vessel’s accommodation are unclear, but in the marketing materials for Aqua the designers suggest an armoured glass window to view the liquid hydrogen tanks and a gym with "massive, gym-wide hatch which opens to reveal the ocean’s surface at water level, creating the perception of exercising and relaxing on an island in the sea".

The concept also includes a “spectacular, extremely spacious” owner’s pavilion, occupying the front half of the upper deck and offering “an abundance of privacy”. Meanwhile “the VIP cabin and other state rooms are focused on openness, luxury and comfort, providing a maximum sense of freedom in a highly detailed minimalist Japanese beach-style setting”, according to Sinot.

The Gates Foundation and Gates Ventures, Mr Gates’s investment vehicle, declined to comment.

[Pontius Navigator]

Cutting to the detail, it will have two supercooled 28 tonne liquid hydrogen tanks. Now how is he going to get the liquid hydrogen? How many ports will have a liquid hydrogen facility? Will he have to subsidise the infrastructure too?

[llondel]

Llondel, the airship used hydrogen as an air displacement. Helium would work too but marginally less effective. As a fuel however only hydrogen, which is not an inert gas would work.

That's why I said I was going to get popcorn Just in case anyone tried it...

[TheGreenGoblin]

Cutting to the detail, it will have two supercooled 28 tonne liquid hydrogen tanks. Now how is he going to get the liquid hydrogen? How many ports will have a liquid hydrogen facility? Will he have to subsidise the infrastructure too?

If the ship produces enough electrical power utilizing solar energy, the cryogenic hydrogen and fuel cells then it would be possible to have a small on board electrolizer on board to produce additional hydrogen which could be liquefied by a regenerative cooling system, although the process would be extremely power inefficient and would probably need to be plugged into the grid in port.

The Germans lead the way in this technology, see the Type 214 submarine.

[TheGreenGoblin]

The world’s largest all-electric aircraft is about to take to the skies for the first time.

The Cessna Caravan, retrofitted with an electric engine, is expected to fly for 20-30 minutes over Washington state in the US on Thursday.

The plane can carry nine passengers but a test pilot will undertake the inaugural flight alone, cruising at a speed of 114mph (183km/h). The engine maker, magniX, hopes the aircraft could enter commercial service by the end of 2021 and have a range of 100 miles.

MagniX.jpg (42.9 KiB) Viewed 6218 times

MagniX set for first flight

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVx39S ... As20_TIAIw

[ian16th]

When does an electric motor become an 'engine'?

Do Flemming's Left and Right Hand Rules apply to electric engines?

[TheGreenGoblin]

When does an electric motor become an 'engine'?

Do Flemming's Left and Right Hand Rules apply to electric engines?

Technically you are right Ian. An electrically driven device is driven by a motor.

[TheGreenGoblin]

Without wanting to be driven down a semantic rabbit hole I can vouch that this very interesting article covers only mechanically driven aircraft engines, a bit of a blast from the past here...

Can there be this many engines?

More Funk than might have thunk!

[ian16th]

When does an electric motor become an 'engine'?

Do Flemming's Left and Right Hand Rules apply to electric engines?

Technically you are right Ian. An electrically driven device is driven by a motor.

I fell into my own trap didn't I?

Flemming's Right Hand Rule applies to gererighters! Doesn't it?

[TheGreenGoblin]

I fell into my own trap didn't I?

Flemming's Right Hand Rule applies...

I suppose that it can be argued that a generator is a driven motor as opposed as a motor that drives something else but yes you have opened up a can of worms and the right hand rule does apply to generators... (if we get really technical we can look at how the armatures are wound too)...

I dare you to start this on TOP, it will run and run... just like a motor!



You will have them all contorting their fingers and shouting about polarity... You could be really cruel and drop some of Maxwell's equations into your post as well.

As an aside I found a wonderful story about one guy's love affair with the Rotax engine...



An American who made the world a great place to live. RIP Mike Arnold.

[G-CPTN]

Electric plane's 'milestone' first UK test flight at Cranfield.