Why Dubai is so vile, despicable, and reprehensible

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Re: Why Dubai is so vile, despicable, and reprehensible

#101 Post by Mrs Ex-Ascot » Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:33 pm

Rwy in Sight wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:14 pm
Mrs Ex-Ascot wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:29 am
I like the way that they are blaming everything apart from the fact that many people don't want to fly via Dubai any more. And that includes us! Indeed we plan to continue to avoid the Sandpit full stop from now on.
I thought your transit experience was not bad after all. What make you change your mind that much?
The timing of flights made for long transit times in the middle of the night which involves faffing about going out to a hotel for a few hours sleep and then back in for an early morning flight. Result was a very fatiguing journey which was also expensive. Even going via Doha was no better despite no stopover and Quatar did not impress us.

This year we are flying with Swiss direct via Zurich which is a much better schedule with a long overnight sector with fully reclining seats and a short day sector between Athens and Zurich :D
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Re: Why Dubai is so vile, despicable, and reprehensible

#102 Post by Capetonian » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:24 pm

This year we are flying with Swiss direct via Zurich which is a much better schedule with a long overnight sector with fully reclining seats and a short day sector between Athens and Zurich
A far better choice in every way. My favourite route to/from ZA and the one I always try to use.

Whoever suggested that to you must be is very smart!
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Re: Why Dubai is so vile, despicable, and reprehensible

#103 Post by Rwy in Sight » Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:02 pm

I am surprised they didn't think it themselves.

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Re: Why Dubai is so vile, despicable, and reprehensible

#104 Post by Ex-Ascot » Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:21 pm

Rwy in Sight wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:02 pm
I am surprised they didn't think it themselves.
Much more expensive. Used to fly 1st with EK but they doubled the prices so went Business. Now we can go 1st with Swiss at less the price of 1st EK. But still more expensive then EK Business. We will see if Mastermind is right. We are sure he is. They just better not have any frog announcements.

Anyway in the last week we have lost more on the markets than the price of our tickets. Bloody live animal eating Chinks.
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Re: Why Dubai is so vile, despicable, and reprehensible

#105 Post by Rwy in Sight » Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:17 pm

I am not sure it is applicable to you but I feel Swiss it is more ethical buy - it treats its crew better and it is based in a better country.

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Re: Why Dubai is so vile, despicable, and reprehensible

#106 Post by Capetonian » Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:32 pm

My long haul segment is on Edelweiss (Swiss LX/WK codeshare) and it is mostly used by German Swiss. I don't think I have ever heard announcements in Frog but I tend to blank it out. The FAs are invariably healthy looking Swiss lad and lasses. A lovely airline to fly with.
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Re: Why Dubai is so vile, despicable, and reprehensible

#107 Post by Ex-Ascot » Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:36 pm

Rwy in Sight wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:17 pm
I am not sure it is applicable to you but I feel Swiss it is more ethical buy - it treats its crew better and it is based in a better country.
RiS I do not think that you can treat your crews worse than EK.

Cape, not interested in the guys. probably all woofters anyway. Did Julie Andrews go to work for them in the end after she escaped over there?

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Re: Why Dubai is so vile, despicable, and reprehensible

#108 Post by Rwy in Sight » Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:58 pm

I feel you can Ex A. I hope TS is not reading this but German speaking ladies have a certain charm in an airline perspective.

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Re: Why Dubai is so vile, despicable, and reprehensible

#109 Post by 1DC » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:06 am

Went to Oz,return, a couple of years ago on a combination of Swiss, Cathay and Singapore in business. We rated them Cathay, Swiss and Singapore in that order. All very good though.On the way home we missed our connection in Zurich but they had us switched to Lufthansa within 15 minutes, via Frankfurt and we were in Manchester only an hour late.And our bags made it..
We are in Oz at the moment and have travelled Oman air and Malaysian, Oman are very good and recommended, Malaysian are only average and not the quality they were ten years ago.Muscat and KL have good business lounges for transit..

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Re: Why Dubai is so vile, despicable, and reprehensible

#110 Post by Capetonian » Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:27 pm

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/insi ... re-father/
The inside story of the Dubai princess who fled from her billionaire father.

A few quotes from a long article in today's DT about this haven of justice and tranquility which attracts millions of whores, pimps, alcoholics, wife-beaters, criminals of all kinds and so on annually, all proudly carried by Emirates.
'We were taken back to Dubai. That was the last time I saw Latifa. She was being dragged off the boat, kicking and screaming, yelling that she was seeking political asylum. They ignored her. The whole situation was so unreal. I wish I’d said something, but I was paralysed. They threatened to shoot my brain out if I spoke. It was shocking. It was beyond my comprehension.’

Along with Jaubert, Tiina was taken to a national security prison, where she was kept in solitary confinement for several weeks. ‘ in a cell, which was freezing cold with the fluorescent lights always on. There was a hatch in the wall that they’d open to give me food,’ she says.

‘It was mental torture. I was sleep deprived and the guards told me I’d “stabbed the ruler of Dubai in the back”, so I’d get the death penalty, or a life sentence. They tried to make me do a false confession, saying I’d tried to cheat Latifa into escaping. Sometimes they’d get so angry I felt like they were about to hit me.’

Sheikh Mohammed, 70, is largely credited with turning Dubai into the global, glamorous city it is today. ......

Yet behind his public image as a progressive ruler of a forward-thinking country lies a more controversial side. Campaign group Human Rights Watch has called the UAE ‘hypocritical’, and says that any attempt to paint the government as tolerant ‘is laughable.’ In recent years, there have been a number of high-profile cases of people, including British citizen Matthew Hedges, being imprisoned and allegedly badly treated at the hands of the country’s security services.

The country’s laws are also some of the strictest in the world: people can be detained for free speech-related offences, and sodomy carries a 10-year prison sentence. The Emirates also enforces the law of male guardianship, where women can effectively only work with their husband’s permission, must have a lawful excuse if they refuse to have sex with their husband, and must grant full custody of her children to her husband if she wants to divorce him and remarry. Rape victims are also often ostracised for going public.

The strict oppression of women in the UAE appears to extend to the royal family itself. Each of the Sheikh’s wives has her own separate home, and they are not encouraged to mix with each other. In some ways, the expectations of them as royals mean they have even more restricted lives than local UAE women – Latifa has alleged she had no freedom to travel, work, or even have relationships.

Latifa had tried to escape once before, as a teenager, by riding into Oman on horseback. But after being captured at the border, she was imprisoned for three-and-a-half years, when she alleges she was tortured. ‘One person would hold her, and the other would cane her feet,’ says Tiina. ‘She was given no fresh clothes, toothbrush or anything to wash with.’

Her older sister’s story is even more harrowing. It appears Princess Shamsa tried to run away from her family’s Surrey estate back in 2000, when she was just 18, after being told she wasn’t allowed to go to university. But two months later, she was found in Cambridgeshire, and taken back to Dubai. It is now 20 years since Shamsa was last seen in public.

Tiina now hopes that Latifa’s story will move other Arab women to speak up about the way they are treated. ‘Latifa isn’t the only one who is suffering. There are many other women in similar situations, being oppressed because of inequality, not having the choice to study or work. She’s one of those women. It’s pretty normal over there for a female to be under house arrest for rebelling. And if Latifa as a princess is treated like this, imagine how they’re treated?

‘First Shamsa, then Latifa, and now Randa,’ says Haigh. ‘They all have similar stories. “I was abused, I had my daughter taken off me, they threatened me, they did this and that.” And these are the ones we know about. How many more are there that we don’t?

‘It’s about time we looked beyond the façade and glitz and glamour of Dubai, and questioned what’s really going on.’
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Re: Why Dubai is so vile, despicable, and reprehensible

#111 Post by G-CPTN » Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:34 pm


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Re: Why Dubai is so vile, despicable, and reprehensible

#112 Post by G-CPTN » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:16 pm


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Re: Why Dubai is so vile, despicable, and reprehensible

#113 Post by ian16th » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:02 pm

Will he get into the Royal Enclosure at Ascot this year?
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Re: Why Dubai is so vile, despicable, and reprehensible

#114 Post by Ex-Ascot » Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:01 am

ian16th wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:02 pm
Will he get into the Royal Enclosure at Ascot this year?
I honestly don't understand why The Royal Family consider him as a friend. Is he paying for the refurbishment of Buck House.

If you are qualified to go into the Royal enclosure your wife can be qualified as well. Can he remember which one it is? It didn't used to be photo ID so I guess he can pick one at random.
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Re: Why Dubai is so vile, despicable, and reprehensible

#115 Post by Capetonian » Mon May 11, 2020 11:03 am

On one of my rare forays into Pprune, I looked at one thread I've followed. It's entitled 'What are the good place to visit in Dubai'.

I was delighted to see this. Not expressed as forcibly as I would have done, but pleasing to see it anyway.
Let me be clear. There are no good places to visit in Dubai, bar the departure lounge at DXB, as already written in scrotometer's contribution. The place and the whole of the UAE is a nasty little shithole. And it is densely populated by people who are able to turn a blind eye to the abuse of workers whilst themselves coining it and living a comfortable life. One of my sons included. As for being woke, I doubt that I would have survived my time in the forces with such attitudes.
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Re: Why Dubai is so vile, despicable, and reprehensible

#116 Post by Capetonian » Wed May 20, 2020 11:07 am

Advice from 'Detained in Dubai' to anyone who hasn't yet left that shithole - leave now.
Detained In Dubai

“Leave Dubai before you are jailed” - Coronavirus lockdown economic disaster risks gulf expats

Dubai expats face jail over lockdown economic crisis

Radha Stirling, CEO of Detained in Dubai, founded in 2008 has warned foreign workers and investors in the UAE to exit before it’s too late. 2008 saw mass casualties, with debtors jailed, robbed of their assets or prevented from leaving the country. Worldwide lockdowns are expected to have an even greater impact. Stirling issued the following statement:

“The closure of world economies, travel and businesses this year has left countries suffering to the tune of trillions of dollars, with millions at the brink of starvation and mass job losses. Airlines have ground to a halt, laying off half or more of their staff and businesses have been forced to shut by government order. Make no mistake, millions will be either bankrupted, out of work or even homeless. The impact of the disastrous worldwide lockdowns will be felt for years after restrictions are lifted.

Businesses have sustained considerable losses during the lockdown and even once restrictions are lifted, are unlikely to return to normal turnover levels for some time, even years. There appears to be no government plan to make individuals feel safe but rather the opposite, to promote social distancing as a new way of life. Ultimately, if people continue to fear contracting coronavirus, businesses will continue to fail, individuals will continue to lose their jobs, their homes, their life savings; and that is if they’re fortunate enough not to be hungry or homeless.

Dubai Expo 2020 employees have been made redundant as the hope to attract foreign investment fades. Staff are being laid off without pay across all industries and expats will have no choice but to return to their native land. Most people who were in a flexible situation, have already left the UAE, while some have taken the risk that they will have a job after lockdown. Meanwhile, they are depleting their savings and many are borrowing and going into debt.

Foreigners who have invested in the UAE or partnered with locals, are likely to have their businesses and investment stolen as Emiratis try to make ends meet themselves. Foreigners are “fair game” in these instances, as we saw in 2008.

It is standard practice in the UAE to provide post dated cheques for monthly commitments or business agreements. Many of these cheques will bounce which is a criminal offence in Dubai with a penalty of up to three years per cheque, whether the cheque was written fraudulently or whether it was not honoured because of a government mandated lockdown that caused economic devastation.

In 2008, those who remained and tried to resolve their business issues or negotiate a new repayment scheme with banks, were jailed. There was no mercy. The ones who left quickly lost their homes, their cars and were chased internationally by debt collectors but, at least, they were not in jail or forbidden to leave the UAE as many still are. The only hope of resolving financial issues without going to jail, is to leave the country.

The economical impact of lockdowns worldwide is devastating enough, but add to that a system that allows for legal abuse, corruption, business theft and the criminalisation of debt, and you have an absolute disaster.

Now is the time that the crooks will come out. Banks will call in loans where it is profitable for them to do so. Business partners will withdraw funds from bank accounts without mutual agreement. Frivolous civil suits will ensue and extortion and threats will increase. This is only a snippet of what we saw in 2008 and the lockdown policies are far worse.

My advice now is what it was then. Leave Dubai before you are jailed and resolve any debts or business issues from the safety of abroad. Most of those who remained in the UAE in 2008 to try to resolve their debts or issues, were banned from leaving the UAE or jailed. Most lost all of their investments and savings. The safest solution is to leave the UAE and wait to see how it recovers.

If the UAE maintains its social distancing policies and if people are still frightened to contract the virus, there will be ongoing economic decline.”
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Re: Why Dubai is so vile, despicable, and reprehensible

#117 Post by Capetonian » Sat May 23, 2020 7:03 am

Another set of reasons to stay away from the Gulf and avoid its airlines. These are the people who clean and maintain the airports and aircraft, handle your baggage, prepare your food, clean and service your hotel rooms and public areas. The slaves of the Emiratis may spread the disease to their slavemasters.
'They breathe the same air as us': the forgotten victims of coronavirus in the Gulf

Coronavirus has taken hold among South Asian migrant workers who have little protection and few rights

The migrant workers from the northern Indian state of Uttar Pradesh share a derelict one-room apartment in the Jleeb Al-Shoyoukh neighbourhood of Kuwait City. Around 500 other South Asian labourers live in the 70 flats that make up Mr Ali’s block, many of whom have Covid-19 symptoms. These densely-populated apartment blocks and labour camps populated by migrant workers from India, Bangladesh and Nepal are driving the deadly Covid-19 pandemic across the oil-rich nations of the Gulf.

The World Health Organisation (WHO) has raised concerns about the spread of the disease among these forgotten workers, who could then take it back into their home nations, while activists say the refusal by ruling elites to reform living and working conditions has spawned a "public health crisis waiting to happen".

Mr Ali is terrified he will catch the virus and says he is unable to leave the apartment block to seek medical treatment out of fear of being beaten by the police for breaking the coronavirus curfew. After having his employment as a painter terminated without pay on March 11 he is forced to queue for hours for food handouts from the Indian Embassy.

“I am worried about catching coronavirus but if I don’t go to the handout then I won’t eat for the day,” he said.

The Gulf nations are some of the wealthiest in the world.......... But much of this wealth is built on the sweat of migrant labourers, the majority of whom come from South Asia.

Today, these expat workers number over 35 million and constitute around 70 per cent of the population in Kuwait, 80 per cent in the United Arab Emirates and 88 per cent in Qatar. Dr Steffen Hertog, associate professor at the London School of Economics, says without these migrant workers the Gulf states would not exist.

“These countries only managed to expand their economies in the 1970s and 1980s because they could rely on low cost labour,” he says.

The Gulf countries are notoriously opaque when it comes to publishing data on their workforce but experts agree almost every job in the private sector is filled by a migrant worker, most of whom, like Mr Ali, live in unhygienic housing and work in unsafe conditions.

Now the Gulf economies have ground to a halt after the virus spread like wildfire in these same migrant communities.

Qatar - which has officially recorded over 32,000 cases to date - published a breakdown by nationality on April 28. Qataris made up just six per cent of infections while Indians constituted 32 per cent, Nepalis 20 per cent and Bangladeshis 18 per cent.

While authorities across the Gulf have concealed the nationalities of those infected, activists say almost all cases in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates are among migrant labourers. Despite the risks, Qatar even forced some labourers to continue working on infrastructure ahead of the World Cup 2022, says John Sfarianakis, associate fellow at think tank Chatham House.

Positive cases have been recorded among construction workers working on stadia but the true extent of infection is unknown, with thousands thought to be employed.

“The most immediate concern for us has been the spread of the virus among migrant workers, because of the insanely crowded and unhygienic living conditions,” said Hiba Zayadin, Gulf researcher at Human Rights Watch.

“Governments in the Gulf should not have allowed migrant workers to live in such appalling and undignified conditions to begin with.

“Now they are having to contend with a magnified public health crisis just waiting to happen,” she says.

But experts say these laws are rarely enforced and companies have cancelled the contracts of migrant labourers, reduced wages and refused to provide healthcare.

“Gulf officials understand that South Asian workers play a central role in their economies but expatriates have absolutely no formal political influence in these societies,” said Robert Mogielnicki, fellow at the Arab Gulf States Institute.

A Bangladeshi employee of a large conglomerate in Dubai told the Telegraph he was forced to share the kitchen and bathroom of his apartment block with 10 colleagues who had tested positive for coronavirus. But the company refuses to test anyone else over fears it could lose valuable contracts, he says.

Activists have called on the Gulf nations to use the coronavirus pandemic as an opportunity to reform the conditions migrant labourers face across the region.

“For the very first time, many countries are realising migrant workers breathe the same air and live on the same soil as us,” said Houtan Homayounpour, head of the International Labour Organisation in Qatar.

“So, if you do not take care of the migrant worker community then the pandemic will come back and affect you as the local population too.

“I really hope that when we come out of this; migrant workers are globally more and more recognised for their contributions and better protected.”

The Indian Government is yet to raise the issue with the Gulf nations for fear of jeopardising the remittances sent back home, worth £29.5 billion in 2017, or around three per cent of GDP.

India has begun repatriating its nationals but with flights from the UAE costing £500, only those who can afford it can leave. It is an unimaginable sum of money for Mr Ali.

“I am locked-up here and I am just crying to go back to India, I haven’t seen my family in two-and-a-half years,” he said.
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Re: Why Dubai is so vile, despicable, and reprehensible

#118 Post by G-CPTN » Sat May 23, 2020 4:31 pm

Workers living in crowded conditions will, understandably, acquire the virus, but what is the morbidity ratio?
Are they resisting (as is suggested in India)?

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Re: Why Dubai is so vile, despicable, and reprehensible

#119 Post by Undried Plum » Sat May 23, 2020 9:58 pm

Nobody knows.

That is their condition.

Few, who matter, give a flying fukk about their condition. That is the problem.

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