People's opinion on airlines

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Rwy in Sight
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People's opinion on airlines

#1 Post by Rwy in Sight » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:31 pm

As promised to and discussed with Cape.


We love to discuss aviation (especially when prompted by Alison) hence we are familiar (more or less) with airlines aircraft types terms and conditions for pilots. Hence we like some airlines more than others and we have a list we really dislike. However I am sure most people we know only care to travel from A to B safely and with the lowest fare possible.

I have friend who used to work as tour leader traveling extensively (not by ops-normal standards) and she couldn't remember the aircraft she has flown on some trans-Atlantic crossings - I was explaining ETOPS to her. So when Cape mentioned Vueling I am wondering how our opinion (based on knowledge) compares to the general population for FR, BA or AF. And we need to take under consideration that people under let's say 25 have never experience the plush but expensive air travel of up to the mid-80's. I believer that an average european C class trip is comparable with a Y class trip back then.

Not sure if it is clear but if is not answer as you thing you understand the question!

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Re: People's opinion on airlines

#2 Post by Capetonian » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:27 pm

Thanks RiS, good topic and as a frequent traveller over many years I am happy to give some input here.

I should qualify this by saying that I am now entirely in control of when and where I travel and how much I spend. I am not price sensitive and do not look for the lowest fare, I look for the best experience and then look to find that at the best price, in C or W for longhaul. Also that I mostly travel between ZA and EU, and within EU. I do very little travel to the Far East but would probably choose one of my preferred EU carriers, or JL, CX, or SQ. Ditto for US/CA, but my preferred carrier would be EI who have an expanding network of routes into NAMER.

A bit of background, when I was based in CPT I used to travel to EU 5 or 6 times a year both privately and on business. For business trips, policy was dictated by company policy, it was usually a question of airline free tickets so there was little choice. In those happy days it was easy to travel on standby as flight were rarely anything approaching full, and travelling on staff or consultant tickets, I invariably travelled in First or Business (although the latter hadn't really caught on). When you only turn left on boarding you do get spoilt.

When I travelled privately I would usually choose SAA or BA for the direct flights, both airlines in those days were very good, unlike now when BA is run by a pennypinching Basque who has cut standards all round in the interest of IAG shareholders (I happen to be one but despise his attitude). Particularly on the CPT route their aircraft are tatty old 747-436's with an average vintage of about 21 years. Even a good red wine is past its best at that age. Their C class is a disgrace.

SAA in those days was run by white, mostly Afrikaans, people who although they were government employees in what was more or less sheltered employment, it was a good well run airline, although it rarely, if ever, made a profit. Now it is run by a bunch of non-reflectives who have no clue and are purely there because they are black, and licked the right backsides, and of course the tax-payer subsidised losses are now in the billions (of ZAR).

I also used to travel a lot of intra-African routes, on SAA where possible but they weren't allowed to fly to most black African countries so I used airlines like TAAG, DETA, Zambia Airways, KQ, Air Malawi, and a few others. They were almost universally ***** or worse and I felt unsafe. The only decent one was SuidWes Lugdiens, now known as Air Namibia, because South West Africa was effectively a white run South African protectorate.

I used to travel LH, SR, and KL when it was my money and my choice, and OA (Olympic Airways) and AZ because they were incredibly generous with free tickets.

When based in EU, for business travel I mostly used IB, a matter of company policy. They were generally lousy and have got worse, and then we were able to use LH which for many years remained my carrier of preference, to the extent that I had the top level FF (Senator) card for many years. Occasionally used AF if there was no other reasonable choice. Much as I dislike the French, I have to admit that although their ground service is typically French, rude, arrogant and inefficient, they were generally excellent in the air, specially in the premium classes on longhaul. Connecting at CDG was always the very worst part of flying AF.

Now that I am answerable to nobody except myself when I travel, I have a shortlist of preferred airlines whom I use regularly and enjoyably:
LX, EI, U2, OS and KL.

Airlines I quite like :
LH, TP, LO

Airlines I prefer to avoid :
BA, AF, BE

Airlines I would strenuously try to avoid :
FR, any middle Eastern/Gulf/African carrier, IB, VY, Wizzair, Brussels Airlines

Airlines I would not use under any circumstance
MS, EK.

I have no doubt others will come to mind.

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Re: People's opinion on airlines

#3 Post by Rwy in Sight » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:42 pm

Cape,

thanks for your input. The question is have a more or less positive opinion of FR and EK while they don't deserve it. We know that they treat their staff indecently, they create problems in the local communities (FR) but people like them and keep flying with them while stories about how bad they treat their pax in an abnormal situation.

So how people decide which is a good airline and which is a bad one - based on your experience acting with the public.

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Re: People's opinion on airlines

#4 Post by Sisemen » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:15 am

Having flown too many miles with Ascot Airlines anything with a soft seat is a bonus now!

If I do an internal Oz flight I tend to opt for QANTAS economy. They can be a bit cramped and some of the company is questionable (long-distance FIFO workers straight off the mine site) but the overall standard is good and the price is all-inclusive. I tend to get a severe reaction when paying a fair whack for a seat and then getting charged a fortune for a grotty sandwich.

Internationally I tend to fly biz with Emirates. Never had a bad deal with them and the points go on my QANTAS FF card.

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Re: People's opinion on airlines

#5 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:28 am

Having robbed me of my once promised Lifetime Staff Travel in retirement, instrumental in choosing NZ as a retirement venue, I will now flatly refuse to give any of my hard earned pension to BA. I'd even fly Korean rather than do that, in fact if it weren't for the fact that my pension is dependant upon BA continuing in business, I would actively work to try and close them down. I guess I wouldn't have a chance, but would enjoy trying.

If I had my time again I'd devote all my career to SQ instead of just the last part of it, a good outfit to work for, responsible maintenance, and a good operation. Passengers seem happy, too.

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Re: People's opinion on airlines

#6 Post by Capetonian » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:25 am

The reason for FR being so successful is that they are cheaper, or at least appear to be, than their competitors and they fly unique routes not served by others.

EK offer a massive global network and lower fares on most routes than most of their competitors, they also offer perks such as a greater baggage allowance.

In both cases, they appeal to people who want low fares/better value.

EK operates in an unethical and immoral manner, but to people who don't care, they are fine until something goes wrong, when their lousy customer service can be seen. Not just that, but their hub is a cesspit of slavery and hypocrisy. Those are my reasons for not flying with them.

FR are considerably more transparent than EK in the way they operate, but I would have to be very desperate to fly with them. I would draw the line at calling them immoral, but their practices are 'sharp' to say the least.

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Re: People's opinion on airlines

#7 Post by ian16th » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:47 am

I was spoilt!

When I as on 214 Sqdn at Marham and we went off anywhere doing the re-fuelling thing.
RAF Transport Command used to send an a/c, usually a Britannia, and park it on our dispersal alongside our Valiant's.
When we had seen off our a/c we would get onto the Brit and those lovely Transport Command types would land an park right next to our Valiant's where the Crew Chiefs were waiting to catch whichever trades they need to de-snag their charges.

Can't beat having the airline pick up and deliver you at your place of employment.
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Re: People's opinion on airlines

#8 Post by ian16th » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:36 am

Routing from Africa to Europe.

My neighbour who is going on holiday to Gozo, and flying with Turkish Airlines, has clarified a few points.

Yesterday he borrowed my bathroom scale to weigh his luggage, and informed me that he has a baggage allowance of 32kg! This on a cattle class ticket.

What I thought was a non-stop flight from Durban to Istanbul, turns out to be a direct flight, TK 43 routing through ORT Joburg. Then 1hour 35 min later it leaves ORT.

About 12 and half hours in total.

I've only used the new King Shaka (Durban) Airport for internal flights, but it is much less hassle than ORT to get through.
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Re: People's opinion on airlines

#9 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:48 pm

North America & transatlantic

Hopping around Canada, I prefer Westjet (WS). Staff are great, there's never any hassles with luggage, etc, and often very cheap if you can book ahead.
They do transatlantic to Gatwick, but Icelandair (FI) and Air Transat (TS) have comfier seats. Icelandair is my favourite, as one gets a leg stretch in Reykjavik. They can also be very cheap, if booked a long way ahead, or occasionally last minute, but most of the time are either full or expensive. Air Transat are reliably cheap, and good value, but don't fly here in winter.
A lot of the time I end up using Air Canada, who I have also never had any big problems with. They are reliable, reasonably cheap on excess baggage, and I am told quite good if there are delays or cancellations due to weather. All the rest is pretty average.
I've not used them, but friends highly recommend Virgin. They were also generally the guys who would relay my position reports when I flew a transatlantic ferry flight, so they are very nice people!
BA have mucked me around at airports, so I avoid them (although the flight crews and aircraft are fine).
I've been quite happy over the years with the big American carriers; United, Delta, American, especially Delta.
I have strong views on airline safety, and used to teach budding airline pilots in the US, so I try to avoid just about everyone else, and especially US commuter airlines, unless it's a very nice day between easy airports. AF447 appalled me, and I won't fly them again. For regional flying, I prefer to take a big carrier to a hub, then take a hire car for the rest of the way. In many cases it ends up being just as quick as waiting for the connecting flight.
I recently got caught out when an Air Canada flight got transferred to their LoCo Rouge operation - awful. Seats are ridiculously uncomfortable, no leg room, poor service. I suspect this is true of all LoCos, so I've always avoided them.

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Re: People's opinion on airlines

#10 Post by Woody » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:24 pm

Particularly on the CPT route their aircraft are tatty old 747-436's with an average vintage of about 21 years. Even a good red wine is past its best at that age. Their C class is a disgrace.
Only 7 more years, but the cabins are being renovated :ymdevil:
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Re: People's opinion on airlines

#11 Post by Ex-Ascot » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:18 pm

I see that a Polish gentleman (75) flying from Leeds back home to Gdansk with Ryanair didn't understand why the taxi driver at destination didn't speak Polish. He was in Malta.
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Re: People's opinion on airlines

#12 Post by Capetonian » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:35 pm

There are a number of odd aspects about this, although this might just be a question of the holes in the cheese lining up.

It surprises me that he could have got onto the wrong flight at all, as the boarding gate systems are programmed to scan and reject an incorrect boarding pass, or at least to alert the staff.

Then, given that flights are usually full, if he found his numbered seat, it would be unusual for it not to be occupied, or for the correct passenger to come and claim the seat. At that point, a FA would have been called and should have checked the BP and realised he was on the wrong flight.

You might also think that the fact that none of the people on the flight were Polish would alert him, and that none of the PA announcements were made in Polish.

Once airborne, there would have been nothing he could have done, but surely the approach into Malta would have been quite different to the approach into Gdansk (which I think was his destination) although he would not necessarily have been looking out of the window.

Then, he got all the way through the airport at Luqa without realising he wasn't in Poland. I accept that he didn't speak English, but unless he was blind, deaf, and stupid, that could not have happened either.

I don't believe this story as presented.

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Re: People's opinion on airlines

#13 Post by Woody » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:33 pm

Two of BA’s oldest 747-436 have been retired in the last month, bringing the fleet down to 34 and with the 767 leaving in November last year, the average age of the aircraft must be plummeting :D
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Re: People's opinion on airlines

#14 Post by Capetonian » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:56 pm

BNLK and BNLN , the 28 year olds, are out of service, leaving the oldest ones a sprightly 25 years old.

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Re: People's opinion on airlines

#15 Post by llondel » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:42 pm

Capetonian wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:35 pm
It surprises me that he could have got onto the wrong flight at all, as the boarding gate systems are programmed to scan and reject an incorrect boarding pass, or at least to alert the staff.
Rare, but not unheard of.
Then, given that flights are usually full, if he found his numbered seat, it would be unusual for it not to be occupied, or for the correct passenger to come and claim the seat. At that point, a FA would have been called and should have checked the BP and realised he was on the wrong flight.
If it was Ryanair, do they have numbered seats? I thought they were free-for-all, hence offering the option to pay to be nearer the front of the queue.

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Re: People's opinion on airlines

#16 Post by llondel » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:48 pm

Fox3WheresMyBanana wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:48 pm
I've not used them, but friends highly recommend Virgin. They were also generally the guys who would relay my position reports when I flew a transatlantic ferry flight, so they are very nice people!
I've always preferred Virgin if they fly the route I'm taking. Had some good experiences with them but now I'm not in the UK, my only option is to fly SFO->LHR. Virgin America were also good, not flown with them since they got flogged to Alaskan, although Alaskan were pretty decent too. For long-haul US carriers I'd probably pick Delta first, with United an also-ran. I seem to have avoided ever flying American, although that's more accident than design.
AF447 appalled me, and I won't fly them again.
I already had the impulse to avoid them before that incident, but my resolve was even stiffer afterwards.

Capetonian

Re: People's opinion on airlines

#17 Post by Capetonian » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:06 pm

If it was Ryanair, do they have numbered seats? I thought they were free-for-all, hence offering the option to pay to be nearer the front of the queue
I am open to correction but I think with Ryanair, if you do not select and pay for an ASR/STRQ your seat number is allocated when you check in so when you get to the gate you do have an assigned seat.

I'm not impressed with VS based on a handful of flights between CPT and LON, obviously a few years ago. Their marketing hype is just that, hype, and the product doesn't measure up. I won't go out of my way to fly them and I don't think they're any better than BA - and that's bad. Have just booked flights to BGI and as the only non-stops were BA or VS, I booked BA and saved nearly £500. I would happily have spent the extra bucks for a better experience, but I don't think it would have been. As my Dutch friends say : "If you're going to buy *****, but the cheapest ***** you can get."
AF447 appalled me, and I won't fly them again.
I already had the impulse to avoid them before that incident, but my resolve was even stiffer afterwards.
Exactly. CDG used to be a horrible airport for transfers, with arrogant and unhelpful ground staff, obviously as they're French. Shame because I have had some good flights in AF C on long haul, they're good in the air but ...... I won't expand on that.

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Re: People's opinion on airlines

#18 Post by Woody » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:20 pm

Capetonian wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:56 pm
BNLK and BNLN , the 28 year olds, are out of service, leaving the oldest ones a sprightly 25 years old.
Lima November still active, operating BA85 this evening, after a week at BAMC Cardiff :((
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Re: People's opinion on airlines

#19 Post by Capetonian » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:34 pm

I stand corrected, thank you.

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Re: People's opinion on airlines

#20 Post by Octopussy2 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:51 pm

I think the bulk of most posters' experience here is not flying into Asia generally, but I need to fly Geneva to Shanghai in March - anyone have any airline recommendations? (plus as to routeing). Think premium economy rather than business! :((

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