C2 H5 OH

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C2 H5 OH

#1 Post by fin » Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:52 pm

NO idea whether this topic will thrive here or die on the vine.

The role that alcohol plays in a person's life varies widely from one person to another. The spread goes from a total abstainer (often called a teetotaler, sometimes disparagingly) to a round the clock drinker who is unwilling (so he believes) but is, in fact, unable to stop for any length of time for any reason save unconsciousness.

Some occupations enjoy? a much higher proportion of those who might be considered alcohol abusers if not outright alcohol addicts. I have read there is a fairly high correlation between high intelligence and alcohol problems, so it would make sense that occupations such as teaching and medicine would be home to a disproportionate number of heavy drinkers who are at some stage in the continuum from social drinkers to addicts. Other occupations such as air traffic controllers and law enforcement officers create monumental and unending stress which might be the base cause for heavy drinking. I have never seen definitive proof that alcoholics are born versus created, and have come to believe it is often a combination of nature and nurture.

My first flight instructor was in Mensa and also drank non-stop until ultimately the FAA pulled one license after another and he drifted off into obscurity somewhere. I had been a boat owner before becoming a pilot, and was used to (and actually weary of) the non-stop drinking which frequently accompanied boating in all its forms beyond a kayak. Few small airport restaurants seemed anxious to sell liquor to visiting recreational pilots, and although some drank moderately, many did not. So for the most part, aviation was far less of a tempting environment for someone wanting to moderate or entirely quit alcohol intake.

Making the transition from non-stop drinker to non-drinker is not easy and actually not without some risks sometimes. Anyone here who is interested is welcome to add whatever might be of use.
Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment.

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Re: C2 H5 OH

#2 Post by Cacophonix » Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:58 pm

Of much interest to me, not least because, after a relationship with alcohol that started out well in the beginning and that ultimately became totally abusive, I have decided to let it go and consider what I have learned and lost along the way.

It is often difficult to discuss this rationally with some folks because they are either social drinkers who have always had a good relationship with alcohol and may never have a problem whereas others, like me for a long time, may have entered into the total denial phase of a growing problem and don't want to hear what the truth really is.

A complex subject that might arouse strong feelings or total apathy but one that shouldn't be ignored. I salute you for raising it here fin.

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Re: C2 H5 OH

#3 Post by Cacophonix » Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:13 pm

On a slightly more humorous level am I seeing double, or has this thread been duplicated? Has the shock of the thought of perpetual sobriety has finally addled my brain?

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Re: C2 H5 OH

#4 Post by fin » Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:57 pm

I tried to delete the thread with no comments, to no avail.

Had a thought working in the yard. 'Spose you as a pilot had a daily run a small but lovely island, with a fairly short runway right on the coast but with serious mountains very nearby. After making the run daily, you learned, where it counts, that you needed to add more power than you thought you needed and stay a good deal higher than you thought you should, lest when the wind is right and strong, you smite the rocks at the airports approach end.

Next, further 'spose that they put up a webcam so you could watch others making the approach, perhaps for the first or second time. Each time you saw the plane plummet and if fortunate, pour on the power to save the day, you would think - aha, I knew that was going to happen. Then finally, 'spose you learned you could talk to the pilots who were making the approach, and give them the benefit of your experience in that particular situation.

Who would listen and thank you? Who would thank you but not listen? And who would tell you to fck off and turn off his radio. And how would it make you "feel". (This IS agony aunt after all)
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Re: C2 H5 OH

#5 Post by OFSO » Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:19 am

I am one of those people, 10% of the population I believe, on whom consumption of excessive amounts has the effect of a stimulus. I do not fall asleep when drunk and hence cannot sleep it off. In fact, feel utterly wretched for days afterwards. Red wine, which I love, also makes me feel depressed after a couple of glasses. White or rosé, not. Spirits are fine in moderation. As with everything in life, learn your limits (which yes, in some cases, will be zero.)

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Re: C2 H5 OH

#6 Post by probes » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:45 am

Dunno, with me it's about 'what'. The effect, I mean. Somehow I don't like wine very much, so if there's a choice and it's just social, I have some wine, as if it were beer (or champagne), it would be much harder for me to stay 'moderate'. With (herbal) strong spirits it's just medication (at least not feeling dizzy at all) when it's for having a cold or being cold, and makes drunk when I actually wasn't (cold) enough.
With champagne I have to tell myself to stop, and it's not easy, with beer it's not easy to even tell :ymblushing:.

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Re: C2 H5 OH

#7 Post by Slasher » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:11 am

I have been lucky in that the booze has never grabbed me by the nuts (me Gulf moonshine being however the exception as it's not only delish but gives just enough pleasant oomph without creating headaches or loss of sleep) but I class meself as a drunk and not an alcoholic. Yes even when Sharon died I was a constant drunk for 2 years but not psychologically dependent on alcohol. There is in fact a difference.

Once I recovered from her death the grog immediately resumed its proper place in my life with no teeth-gritting on my part. Indeed there were times when I couldn't drink for up to a week and felt no ill effects, just an easily managed longing.

There are justifiable times to get plastered (usually in social gatherings) but I've never drunk myself to oblivion alone after I recovered from the above death. Thing is no matter what the stress, a brief departure from reality is fine but the problems will still exist upon sobering up.

My only truly uncurable addiction is big tits. Can't go a day without at least seeing a pic of big juicy naked ones. There's probably a support group out there for people like me but I want nothing to do with 'em! [-X ;)))

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Re: C2 H5 OH

#8 Post by Cacophonix » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:55 am

Slasher wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:11 am

My only truly uncurable addiction is big tits. Can't go a day without at least seeing a pic of big juicy naked ones. There's probably a support group out there for people like me but I want nothing to do with 'em! [-X ;)))

Mammatus Anonymous! Oh, but wait, they are a cloud appreciation society! =)) ;)))

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Re: C2 H5 OH

#9 Post by Cacophonix » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:09 pm

Cacophonix wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:55 am
Slasher wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:11 am

My only truly uncurable addiction is big tits. Can't go a day without at least seeing a pic of big juicy naked ones. There's probably a support group out there for people like me but I want nothing to do with 'em! [-X ;)))

Mammatus Anonymous! Oh, but wait, they are a cloud appreciation society! =)) ;)))
My AME has produced a number of academic papers on the subject of internet (and porn) addiction! It seems we can become addicted to anything, including ops-normal!

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ng-200199/

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Re: C2 H5 OH

#10 Post by Pontius Navigator » Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:12 pm

My old man was in the Merchant Navy. He was sunk, survived, returned to sea, survived, and ultimately got a command. For much of my early life his work routine was 4 on 8 off with his watch 0400-0800 and 1600-2000. This limited his drinking but duty free G&T was continually available. While he was away my mother also drank G&T to keep him company so to speak. Once he got his own command he was also involved in social drinking and ultimately lost his command and his job, though not his ticket. He got some short term engagement but by then had lost his confidence.

He survived as an amicable alcoholic for a further 15 years; my mother was not so lucky.

In the RAF it was a heavy drinking culture and a 5-man crew meant a minimum 5 pint session. I was easily led astray. The posting barrel of beer when there was a rapid change of crews didn't help. After a good talking t o from a Doc I moderated my drinking but could still find it easy to go one over.

Now I can recognise my limits and can usually stop after half a bottle. On occasion I will have rather more with a beet, wine and a whiskey Contrary to OPSO I will call asleep by 10 so the condition is self limiting ☺.

After a hot day's work I will have a good cold lager and use that as an excuse to draw a thick line between work and rest.

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Re: C2 H5 OH

#11 Post by Pontius Navigator » Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:18 pm


My AME has produced a number of academic papers on the subject of internet (and porn) addiction! It seems we can become addicted to anything, including ops-normal

Caco
Can, and part of my morning routine is to browse the internet and emails and will do this several times a day. But I contend I am not addicted as I can avoid this and do not have withdrawal anxiety when on holiday if there is no internet.

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Re: C2 H5 OH

#12 Post by probes » Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:53 pm

Pontius Navigator wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:18 pm
...academic papers on the subject of internet (and porn) addiction!
Caco
Can, and part of my morning routine is to browse the internet and emails and will do this several times a day.
I get so fed up with my screen (especially when translating something I can only comprehend via 'sentence structure' - who did what and why :) - hard-core terminology, that is) that I don't go anywhere near the laptop for a day or two, if I can help it. :ymsick:
Mostly that's max - well, jobs these days, youknow...

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Re: C2 H5 OH

#13 Post by Cacophonix » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:22 pm

probes wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:53 pm
Pontius Navigator wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:18 pm
...academic papers on the subject of internet (and porn) addiction!
Caco
Can, and part of my morning routine is to browse the internet and emails and will do this several times a day.
I get so fed up with my screen (especially when translating something I can only comprehend via 'sentence structure' - who did what and why :) - hard-core terminology, that is) that I don't go anywhere near the laptop for a day or two, if I can help it. :ymsick:
Mostly that's max - well, jobs these days, youknow...
Spend a lot of time in front of the screen for work and leave ops-normal open in a window just in case. I don't need it open you know. I can handle it. I am not addicted! :-ss

=))

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Re: C2 H5 OH

#14 Post by llondel » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:33 pm

Slasher wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:11 am
My only truly uncurable addiction is big tits. Can't go a day without at least seeing a pic of big juicy naked ones. There's probably a support group out there for people like me but I want nothing to do with 'em! [-X ;)))
Surely they're the sort of thing that need a support group, or at least a helping hand. No end of backache otherwise.

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Re: C2 H5 OH

#15 Post by Slasher » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:47 pm

=)) ;)))

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Re: C2 H5 OH

#16 Post by 1DC » Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:53 pm

I was in the Merchant Navy in my early career and drank a lot, we would get about ten tots out of a bottle of gin. I saw many alcoholics but drinking never seemed to bother me and if it wasn't available it didn't matter. Later in life i drank socially and often to excess but rarely had a headache or felt rough the next day. Three years ago i had a stroke and the Doc said i should give up spirits and try and stick to one or two glasses of wine. I could drink as much beer as i wanted. I did as i was told and now unless i am on holiday in warmer climes i drink two or three beers a week. The only difference is that I sleep better than before , elect to be the driver more often than not and am quite happy with a pint of lime and soda. If i was given the choice of going back to the good old days of G & T's before dinner and wine with it i am certain i would decide to stay the way i am now.

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Re: C2 H5 OH

#17 Post by Rwy in Sight » Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:58 pm

Slasher,

I follow the ABC principal: Aviation Breasts Coffee - practically everything else is secondary. I follow it for the last 25+ years. And it doubles for the first aid as Airways Breath Circulation. And I can't spend a day without eating cheese.

Beer is only needed a couple of times a week although a friend says beer is the drink of the team wine is the drink of loneliness.

And one more random thought I 'd rather have beer rather than a cola drink

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Re: C2 H5 OH

#18 Post by G-CPTN » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:58 pm

To put things into some sort of perspective, at one stage my desk was in an open plan office with the 'records' section at the back of the room, where the test records were file in filing cabinets by young ladies.
The mature gentleman who was the records manager sat right next to the cabinets at the back of the girls who sat in rows in front of him, regularly walking from their desks to the cabinets to file or retrieve documents.
Fred didn't say much, but you could tell he 'thought' plenty as these maidens passed to a fro in front of him.
The presence of the filing girls attracted (almost exclusively) female visitors from other departments to chat (not about work).
On one occasion I was standing by Fred's desk in conversation with him about work when a particularly attractive and provocatively-dressed young lady entered the area to talk with one of the girls.
I remarked "Oh, Fred, couldn't you just . . . " to which Fred replied "Quite frankly old boy, I would rather have a pint of beer . . . unless, of course I had only just had a pint of beer . . . "

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Re: C2 H5 OH

#19 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:31 am

Do we drink for the taste, or the effect ?

It's a long time since I felt that I had drunk too much, but when thirsty, or being social, I prefer the taste of a decent beer to water, coke, etc, and would be happy with a decent non-alcoholic beer, so that I could quaff more of it to quench the thirst, or hang around longer . Already started a thread a few weeks ago about how I can't find a really nice tasting zero alc. beer.

Never became addicted, but .... walking New York with a fellow crew member one morning, we decided to " pop in" for just one early lunchtime beer, to help the afternoon sleep prior to an early evening departure. Unfortunately we picked a popular "crew watering hole" and met many friends, and the rounds kept flowing until... Christ, it's 3 o'clock! We dashed back to the hotel consuming as many black coffees as we could manage from the various fast food joints that we passed, slept fitfully until call time, and sat at the back of the bus away from the rest of the crew. My mate was the Nav, on that sector home, so he sat at the back of the flight deck, raised the light obscuring curtain, and .... donned the oxygen mask ! I had to sit in the right hand seat and keep as quiet as I could, fortunately the Captain was one of the "old" North Atlantic Barons, who never spoke to lesser mortals anyway, so that helped. I managed to chant the checklists and talk to ATC without disaster, but as we lined up on the runway the Captain leaned over and pushed the Flight Director control switch towards me and said " You have control". Christ ! I Managed to hand fly to the first cleared altitude without too much distress, then engaged the auto-pilot and picked up the Flt. Log - which the "older Captains never touched" to fill in the details to date. The Captain quietly looked across at me and said " You won't do that again, will you ? " He knew. Lesson learned.

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Re: C2 H5 OH

#20 Post by Slasher » Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:52 am

Cacophonix wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:09 pm
It seems we can become addicted to anything,
When I gave up smoking I needed an exchange habit to get over the initial hump. My wife offered her (smokin'!) assets whenever I felt the need to light up. Fortunately I wasn't a heavy smoker so her ensuing chest lacerations weren't all that serious!

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