Ops-Normal.org

Why does the occasional Good Nights Sleep - a solid seven or eight hours with none or maybe one pee break, and waking up late at seven - leave me exhausted the next day, whereas a night of broken sleep periods not have the same effect ?

Has to do with the amount of REM sleep you get. Saw Dr. Mark Rosekind speak once---he was the Dr. in charge of fatigue and sleep management for the Space Program. Ended up on the NTSB--highly entertaining and incredibly knowledgeable. He advocates the use of melatonin and caffeine. Google is your friend.

This was the basics of the talk I watched----although a condensed version of it:

G~Man wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:34 pm

He advocates the use of melatonin and caffeine.

.

I used caffeine pills in 1965 when driving 400 miles non-stop to France immediately after an all-night boozy party.

G-CPTN wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:29 pm

I used caffeine pills in 1965 when driving 400 miles non-stop to France immediately after an all-night boozy party.

Most pilots I knew in Hawaii back in the 90's, including myself, were using "Vivarin" pills each afternoon----basically name brand caffeine pills.

Ooh.....I'd love a seven or eight hour sleep...

OFSO, there is a sleep laboratory oop north in Newcastle-on-Tyne which regularly features on TV shows about sleep and lack thereof.
If you approached them via your GP they might wire up your cranium and come up with reliable info? And we might get to see you on the small screen-a bonus!
There are other labs darn sarf if you don’t like the idea of venturing north of the Humber-Mersey border.
I read somewhere that as we get older we neither need nor get as much kip as we think we need and alas things like FitBits are not the most reliable devices for self-diagnosis.
For my own sleep management I never ever drink any caffeine beverage after 1800 local time and I’ve seen 1600 recommended in articles on the topic as a stop time. Also the evening glass or 3 of “electric soup” with one’s meal is detrimental to a good kip, as is the habit of evening eating as opposed to lunchtime/mid-pm main meals.

“If you want to live longer, you have to give up all the things that make you want to live longer.”

Not the sleep that's the problem, it's the day following a deep sleep when I feel tired all day. Last night's sleep was disturbed and woke at five, but I'm completely alert and awake today.

Never eat in the evening. How the Spanish survive eating dinner at ten p.m. or later I'll never know.

Coffee, including the lovely and amazing Turkish, has no effect on me whatsoever. Usually drink six to eight large coffees a day.

The best things in life are free:
Love.
Life.
Kids.
Faith.
Sex.
Health.
Your next breath.
A good nights sleep.

Maybe not in that order though.

AtomKraft wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:29 am

The best things in life are free:
Love.
Life.
Kids.
Faith.
Sex.
Health.
Your next breath.
A good nights sleep.

Maybe not in that order though.

+1

You think sex is free? Not in Western Society, it isn't. Love is free, if you have a Border Collie in the household.

Woke up exceptionally late this morning, it was nearly seven am, the App tells me I was asleep for a longer time than usual with plenty of deep sleep in that, yet I have felt tired all morning. Don't understand.

My MiFit shows me awake when I get up to pee or let the dog out but shows me asleep as I lie still in bed watching the news till I fall back asleep.

PP

OFSO wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 18, 2022 11:48 am

Woke up exceptionally late this morning, it was nearly seven am, the App tells me I was asleep for a longer time than usual with plenty of deep sleep in that, yet I have felt tired all morning. Don't understand.

It probably has to do with the quality f sleep not the quantity. Without getting heavily into the 5 stages of sleep, the faster you can get to stage 5, and the longer you stay there, the better.

Try using melatonin---the body naturally releases it to aid in sleep, however as we get older, there is less released. While it may not help you get to sleep--it will improve the quality. In Europe I believe it may be a controlled drug, however tis OTC here. I attended a lecture on said subject by Dr. Mark Rosekind a few years back---he was known as Dr. Sleep at NASA and has done many trials, and managed most of the sleep and fatigue management plans at NASA. Great public speaker too---he recommends the use of caffeine and melatonin to assist management.

I have attached a presentation I give to my staff---it may be helpful.

I have a Melatonin product called 3AM by Natrol.
It is a quick dissolve tablet especially to be taken as the name implies, in the middle of the night.
Valerian root also helps.
Melatonin seems to promote "weird" dreams.

PP

PHXPhlyer wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 18, 2022 4:23 pm

Melatonin seems to promote "weird" dreams.

I do not get weird dreams, however every three months or so I do take a week break from it to break the "melatonin haze"....one does tend to wake up a tad groggy.

The wildest dreams, (not drams), I ever had was when I was on the nicotine patch---myself and SWeMBO at the time would compare dreams in the morning and discovered they were very similar---to be honest, it was kinda scary how similar they were, but each of us from a first person perspective. Always got me thinking that we know nothing about super natural or how the brain really works--maybe there is more out there.....

I have antipathy to drugs or supplements used to get to sleep or deeper sleep because I don't need them. Every night I fall asleep as soon as I turn the light out. That's instant. No drugs needed. (Pees deleted!) I wake just before dawn, pretty much every day, 6am currently. My App registers one hour thirty deep sleep every night, although when it occurs varies. Five hours twenty two minutes normal sleep. That's over the past twelve months.

However what interests me is why after the occasional longer period of sleep I feel more, not less, tired.

As an aside, if I do wake in the night, I use Autogenic Training which puts me back asleep very quickly. My App records very low heat beats after using Autogenic Training, typically 50, which you'd expect from a hypnotic relaxation procedure. Been using it for thirty years.

OFSO wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:32 pm

However what interests me is why after the occasional longer period of sleep I feel more, not less, tired.

This probably has to do with awakening during a particular sleep cycle vs completing the cycle....aside from that, above my knowledge base.

I am either a lucky guy or just different. I go to bed between 2230 and 2300 most nights go to sleep within 20 or 30 minutes and wake up between 0800 and 0830.Sometimes I will roll over and go back to sleep until 0900ish. I occasionally get up about 0300 for a pee and go straight back to sleep but it is very unusual I normally sleep right through.I rarely have a heavy meal after 1900 or drink coffee after 2000 but I do drink a lot of coffee every day.Most unusual noises will wake me up but I just register it and go back to sleep.I have done this ever since I retired.I feel refreshed after my sleep and ready to face the day.

In the 70s the RAF experimented with uppers and downers for aircrew. Mogadon was supposed to put you down with no side effects, 2 pills 8 hours guaranteed, instant awake.
I acquired 2.
Long flight from Singapore to Cyprus with a flag stop in Sri Lanka. I popped one and gave the Co the other. By TOC we were away and free. Disembarked at Sri Lanka enjoyed a cuppa at the airport - 0'Christ Hundred but they had opened up for us. Airborne again, zonk.
Best flight in a VC10 ever.