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Re: Just another school shooting, yawn.
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 9:48 am
by Pontius Navigator
John Hill wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 12:03 am
Gun fondlers always have an a logical answer, except when they do not.
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Re: Just another school shooting, yawn.
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 2:25 pm
by boing
We now know that the shooter told a contact on social media that he was going to shoot his grandmother. This was followed by another message saying he had shot his grandmother and was now going to shoot an elementary school.
I suppose this could have been interpreted by the contact as fantasy but, as someone pointed out, if you discuss Covid on social media you can be automatically flagged but discussing murder is OK. Posts on social media seem to be a common mechanism that removes any final hesitation about violence. It is as if the criminal has been hesitant about his plans but somehow posting on social media removes the last moral block against taking action. I suppose that when you tell a "friend" you are going to do something it reinforces your urge to actually do it.
Strange idea but it seems to be a common occurrence.
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Re: Just another school shooting, yawn.
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 2:57 pm
by PHXPhlyer
From a link in Prospector's linked article:
"When we've got these guys coming over from Australia with their pretty hardcore attitudes, I think it's affected the overall gang environment in this country.
"I'm not sure the Killer Beez or the Tribesmen
have got many 501s in them but the general scene has changed, definitely, as a result of these deportees arriving in New Zealand and setting up shop."
At the same time, gang numbers have been growing for years.
A government briefing in 2019 noted that gang members had doubled in recent years, to almost 7000.
Security expert Chris Kumeroa explained Covid-19 pressures had exacerbated that spike.
"Last year you saw
an increase of 800 patches, so that's fairly alarming. I guess in light of deprivation and the desire to want to fit in, as more and more people become unemployed or distressed, that may be an easy option," he said.
Any insight to 501s and 800 patches referenced?
PP
Re: Just another school shooting, yawn.
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 6:46 pm
by llondel
A well-regulated militia attacked an elementary school, killing 19 students and two teachers. If you want to argue that it wasn't a well regulated militia that attacked the school, and instead, an individual, then you already understand the difference between what the Constitution says and what you want it to say.
Re: Just another school shooting, yawn.
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 7:01 pm
by Dushan
llondel wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 6:46 pm
A well-regulated militia attacked an elementary school, killing 19 students and two teachers. If you want to argue that it wasn't a well regulated militia that attacked the school, and instead, an individual, then you already understand the difference between what the Constitution says and what you want it to say.
The SCOTUS dissagrees. There is a comma between "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State" and "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed". Two separate concepts.
Check DC v. Heller and McDonald v. City of Chicago.
Re: Just another school shooting, yawn.
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 7:28 pm
by John Hill
PHXPhlyer wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 2:57 pm
Any insight to 501s and 800 patches referenced?
501 refers to the Australian legal chapter that says Australia can dump their criminals on NZ. 'Patches' refers to gang recruits who have graduated the initiation period and are authorized to wear the gang regalia.
Nearly 2000 people have been deported to New Zealand since Australia began hardline enforcement of a populist immigration policy in late 2014.
The deportees - many of whom have not lived in New Zealand for decades - are blamed for a rise in violent, organised crime.
Although Australia has long been described as our closest friend, its politicians have not flinched at protests from the highest levels of successive New Zealand governments. It’s become “fashionable” in Australia to “beat up on New Zealanders,” a lawyer says.
Re: Just another school shooting, yawn.
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 7:31 pm
by John Hill
llondel wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 6:46 pm
A well-regulated militia attacked an elementary school, killing 19 students and two teachers. If you want to argue that it wasn't a well regulated militia that attacked the school, and instead, an individual, then you already understand the difference between what the Constitution says and what you want it to say.
I do not understand why the Constitution is treated as sacred words handed down on the mountain top.
Re: Just another school shooting, yawn.
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 8:01 pm
by OFSO
In an earlier phase of my life I had two stepchildren, Canadian as it happens. I also had a handgun, which I used to load with teargas cartridges. It was kept under other stuff in my bedside drawer. I told my stepson it wasn't a toy, it wasn't to be played with, and not to be fired unnecessarily. Of course one evening I came home to find him with reddened eyes, lips and nose, and a strange acrid smell on his hands and clothes. My then wife, his mother, said he'd come in from playing in the garden like that, and she couldn't think why. I suppose I'm lucky it wasn't a weapon with lethal loads.
Re: Just another school shooting, yawn.
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 8:59 pm
by Dushan
It's because you made it a mystery object, forbidding access to it ("it wasn't a toy, it wasn't to be played with, and not to be fired unnecessarily."
Had you done what my uncle did when I first saw him clean his gun things would have been different. He said: here, have a look. This is how it works, this is how you handle it, let me show you what it does. Let's go shooting. Any time you want to go shooting again, just let me know and we'll go again. It's fun.
It was fun and we went a few more times. Never did I even think of doing something with it myself as I understood that it can only be fired at the range and indeed it was not a toy, but there was no mystery. I had my toy BB gun which I used to hunt lizards on the stone wall.
Re: Just another school shooting, yawn.
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 10:18 pm
by boing
John,
I have pointed out many times that the US Constitution can be changed, or Amended as is the accepted term. In fact, the Constitution contains instructions for it's own revision in Article 5.
I am fed up of the ignorant coming out with the cry of the Constitution being some sort of Ten Commandments, it is not, it can be amended if enough citizens believe this is required.
The main reason the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution will not be amended is political, it is an almost certain way to lose in any subsequent election. This is why you see politicians suggesting useless band-aid recommendations rather than something that might be effective, they want to be perceived as doing something without taking the real political risks involved.
Biden is pushing a ban on what he calls assault rifle. There is no way he could see this happening before the mid-term elections in November and after that you can wave the idea good-bye - it looks good for the run up to the election though.
It is a simple consideration. Yes, everybody hates the thought of mass killings but they also hate the thought of becoming victims. They know that, with the best planning in the World, it is unlikely that there will be police presence when they need it so they buy firearms and regretfully accept the concomitant dangers. It's not rocket science.
Simply go to YouTube and see the dozens of recorded incidents of violent home invasions, these are only the cases caught on video there must be at least ten times more that are not recorded.
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Re: Just another school shooting, yawn.
Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 12:57 am
by llondel
Dushan wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 8:59 pm
It's because you made it a mystery object, forbidding access to it ("
it wasn't a toy, it wasn't to be played with, and not to be fired unnecessarily."
Had you done what my uncle did when I first saw him clean his gun things would have been different. He said: here, have a look. This is how it works, this is how you handle it, let me show you what it does. Let's go shooting. Any time you want to go shooting again, just let me know and we'll go again. It's fun.
It was fun and we went a few more times. Never did I even think of doing something with it myself as I understood that it can only be fired at the range and indeed it was not a toy, but there was no mystery. I had my toy BB gun which I used to hunt lizards on the stone wall.
That's how my parents approached things when my sister at age 16 declared that she wanted a motorbike. They told her that if she did it properly, got training, all the proper protective gear, etc, then they'd help her pay for it and buy her first bike. Some time later she mentioned that she could tell which of her friends had had proper training by how they behaved on their bikes.
Re: Just another school shooting, yawn.
Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 2:59 am
by llondel
The Canadian PM, much beloved by some on here, has an opinion on guns.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61641543
Canada should introduce a total ban on the buying and selling of all handguns, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has said.
His government is proposing a new law that would freeze private ownership of all short-barrelled firearms.
The legislation would not ban the ownership of handguns outright - but would make it illegal to buy them.
Should give a short-term boost to the Canadian gun industry.
Re: Just another school shooting, yawn.
Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 6:41 am
by OFSO
"...Because you made it a mystery object, forbidding access to it ("it wasn't a toy, it wasn't to be played with, and not to be fired unnecessarily."
Applying the same logic, taking the boy in the kitchen and showing him eggs were for eating, would have prevented him emptying the fridge of eggs and using them to bombard a neighbour's house to whom he'd taken a dislike. You cannot assume common sense or treat children as adults. Proof is the number of shootings in the USA of family members by young children.
Re: Just another school shooting, yawn.
Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 8:04 am
by John Hill
OFSO wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 6:41 am
Applying the same logic, taking the boy in the kitchen and showing him eggs were for eating, would have prevented him emptying the fridge of eggs and using them to bombard a neighbour's house to whom he'd taken a dislike.
No, if he could not take the eggs he would have thrown potatoes, onions or grenades whatever was available. He dislikes the neighbour and had formed the intent.
See post #132!
Re: Just another school shooting, yawn.
Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 10:12 am
by EA01
The deportees - many of whom have not lived in New Zealand for decades - are blamed for a rise in violent, organised crime.
The deportees are thrown out of Australia because of their violent crimes....and because they choose not to become Australian citizens John, you know that! They drive around with Aoeteroa (?) something, stickers on their shitbox cars committing violent crimes against peaceful citizens, we do not wish for these people who care not to assimilate to be in the community.
It's not a hard to comprehend idea.
Re: Just another school shooting, yawn.
Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 10:22 am
by EA01
They had decades to become Australian citizens....
Re: Just another school shooting, yawn.
Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 3:58 pm
by PHXPhlyer
llondel wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 2:59 am
The Canadian PM, much beloved by some on here, has an opinion on guns.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61641543
Canada should introduce a total ban on the buying and selling of all handguns, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has said.
His government is proposing a new law that would freeze private ownership of all short-barrelled firearms.
The legislation would not ban the ownership of handguns outright - but would make it illegal to buy them.
Should give a short-term boost to the Canadian gun industry.
I see the same thing coming here.
Stirrings about banning "assault rifles" will potentially cause gun sellers to discount their inventory of both guns and ammo that fall into this category and thus put out even more into circulation.
The iconic status of the AR-15 in the US is similar to the status of the AK-47, especially in the Third World countries.
The AR-15 is simply a semi-automatic rifle. What sets it apart from other semi-automatic rifles is its ability to use 30 round (and higher) capacity magazines and the 5.56 x 45 mm cartridges it fires.
PP
Re: Just another school shooting, yawn.
Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 4:17 pm
by llondel
PHXPhlyer wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 3:58 pm
I see the same thing coming here.
Stirrings about banning "assault rifles" will potentially cause gun sellers to discount their inventory of both guns and ammo that fall into this category and thus put out even more into circulation.
The iconic status of the AR-15 in the US is similar to the status of the AK-47, especially in the Third World countries.
The AR-15 is simply a semi-automatic rifle. What sets it apart from other semi-automatic rifles is its ability to use 30 round (and higher) capacity magazines and the 5.56 x 45 mm cartridges it fires.
Depends on whether they just ban the sale of new ones or make it illegal to possess one. I guess there's no record of who's bought them, so they can't go in and check the current whereabouts of the guns (because either people will hide them or sell them to the dodgy guy offering real cash for it). Pandora's Box - once the guns are out there, it's hard work to get them all back and you'll never get all of them.
Re: Just another school shooting, yawn.
Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 8:20 pm
by John Hill
EA01 wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 10:12 am
The deportees - many of whom have not lived in New Zealand for decades - are blamed for a rise in violent, organised crime.
The deportees are thrown out of Australia because of their violent crimes....and because they choose not to become Australian citizens John, you know that! They drive around with Aoeteroa (?) something, stickers on their *sh*t* cars committing violent crimes against peaceful citizens, we do not wish for these people who care not to assimilate to be in the community.
It's not a hard to comprehend idea.
They were not criminals when they went to Oz, many were only children or infants. They learned their criminal ways in Oz. They are deported because they can be and it suits the politicians and the prejudices of people like you.
Re: Just another school shooting, yawn.
Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 8:31 pm
by John Hill
Nancy Wake is said to have been the most decorated woman of WWII but was she Australian?