I have never seen any logical arguments on this subject.
Re: Chaos in USA
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 2:32 am
by boing
John,
I have already shown that this is not the case.
So all these young(ish) scrotes have guns but I am sure you can argue that guns are not the principal factor in the cause of gun deaths of young, and youngish, americans.
John, read your own words. "you can argue that guns are not the principal factor in the cause of gun deaths of young, ". Of course guns are, by definition, the principal factor in gun deaths or they wouldn't be called gun deaths.
.
Re: Chaos in USA
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 3:04 am
by John Hill
I am pleased to see that you are beginning to grasp the problem and to recognize that the principal factor in gun deaths are the guns. You need to go a bit further now and strive to reduce the ludicrous number of guns in your society.
Re: Chaos in USA
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 3:20 am
by boing
Very soon you will be making the ridiculous claim that aeroplanes are responsible for aeroplane deaths.
.
.
Re: Chaos in USA
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 3:37 am
by John Hill
It must be so frustrating for you, you know that guns are the principal factor in the tragic number of gun deaths in your society but you are powerless to do anything about it.
Re: Chaos in USA
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 6:06 am
by boing
There you go again.
"guns are the principal factor in the tragic number of gun deaths"
If that is your totally simplistic appreciation of the problem I am concerned. Yes, I firmly believe that guns are the principal factor in gun deaths, just as drugs are the principal factor in drug deaths and motor cars are the principal reason for car deaths but ban drugs - no, ban cars - no. Yes, I am frustrated but not by the existence of guns but by the useless posturing of people like you who like to pontificate but are totally clueless about how to tackle the problem. You don't solve the problem by letting armed offenders off lightly or by cuddling up to them when they claim any sort of oppressed status.
In our city gun crime increased when the police anti-gun task force was defunded. The a##holes involved were more interested in defunding the police than stopping gun crime and now we live with the results.
There you go again.
"guns are the principal factor in the tragic number of gun deaths"
If that is your totally simplistic appreciation of the problem I am concerned. Yes, I firmly believe that guns are the principal factor in gun deaths, just as drugs are the principal factor in drug deaths and motor cars are the principal reason for car deaths but ban drugs - no, ban cars - no. Yes, I am frustrated but not by the existence of guns but by the useless posturing of people like you who like to pontificate but are totally clueless about how to tackle the problem. You don't solve the problem by letting armed offenders off lightly or by cuddling up to them when they claim any sort of oppressed status.
In our city gun crime increased when the police anti-gun task force was defunded. The a##holes involved were more interested in defunding the police than stopping gun crime and now we live with the results.
.
More useless words from you but the truth is you and your countrymen are totally unable (or unwilling) to address the problem you have with gun deaths.
It does make we wonder if you really like the gun crime situation the way it is.
Re: Chaos in USA
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:17 am
by OFSO
Does anyone really care ? The citizens of a country have the right, nay, the obligation, to run it as the majority want, and citizens of other countries while reserving the right to their own opinions, should leave them to it. Sure, like many things in that country, gun crime USA is a disgrace in what should be regarded, if only superficislly, as a civilised place, but that's how they like it. Leave 'em to it, massacring each other. It's their right.
There you go again.
"guns are the principal factor in the tragic number of gun deaths"
If that is your totally simplistic appreciation of the problem I am concerned. Yes, I firmly believe that guns are the principal factor in gun deaths, just as drugs are the principal factor in drug deaths and motor cars are the principal reason for car deaths but ban drugs - no, ban cars - no. Yes, I am frustrated but not by the existence of guns but by the useless posturing of people like you who like to pontificate but are totally clueless about how to tackle the problem. You don't solve the problem by letting armed offenders off lightly or by cuddling up to them when they claim any sort of oppressed status.
In our city gun crime increased when the police anti-gun task force was defunded. The a##holes involved were more interested in defunding the police than stopping gun crime and now we live with the results.
+1
Guns don't kill. People with guns do!
I can't say with any certainty what percentage of gun crimes are committed by prohibited possessors (felons who are not permitted to possess firearms as well as those with mental illnesses) but it is a significant amount.
Red flag laws are slowly gaining traction where those who are convicted of domestic violence or those who make threats against others can have their firearms taken away while the cases are investigated.
These are small steps but I feel that the main problem is that too many people who are not permitted to have guns do have them and since they are brazen enough to ignore the laws are also brazen enough to use them.
I can't say with any certainty what percentage of gun crimes are committed by prohibited possessors (felons who are not permitted to possess firearms as well as those with mental illnesses) but it is a significant amount.
Red flag laws are slowly gaining traction where those who are convicted of domestic violence or those who make threats against others can have their firearms taken away while the cases are investigated.
These are small steps but I feel that the main problem is that too many people who are not permitted to have guns do have them and since they are brazen enough to ignore the laws are also brazen enough to use them.
All the illegal guns (and this includes the guns in the hands of 'non-permitted' people) started out as guns in the possession of legal owners. It is unfortunate that those legal owners allowed their guns to get in the wrong hands.
Legal gun owners are the source of all illegal guns.
The huge number of legal guns contributes to the problems of illegal guns.
I can't say with any certainty what percentage of gun crimes are committed by prohibited possessors (felons who are not permitted to possess firearms as well as those with mental illnesses) but it is a significant amount.
Red flag laws are slowly gaining traction where those who are convicted of domestic violence or those who make threats against others can have their firearms taken away while the cases are investigated.
These are small steps but I feel that the main problem is that too many people who are not permitted to have guns do have them and since they are brazen enough to ignore the laws are also brazen enough to use them.
All the illegal guns (and this includes the guns in the hands of 'non-permitted' people) started out as guns in the possession of legal owners. It is unfortunate that those legal owners allowed their guns to get in the wrong hands.
Legal gun owners are the source of all illegal guns.
Sorry John.
Not true.
Ghost guns, many AR-15 style and Glock pistols, are readily available and are illegal,as they have no serial numbers to allow them to be traced.
Straw buyers are also a large source of illegal weapons. If someone buys a weapon and falsely states that they are not purchasing the gun for someone else, these are now illegal guns.
I think Boing probably has more insight to the process than I do. My experience is only from a buyers perspective. The process is made easier in my case because as a concealed carry permitee I don't have to undergo a background check for each purchase. I still have to fill out the form and atest to all of the questions on it.
All the illegal guns (and this includes the guns in the hands of 'non-permitted' people) started out as guns in the possession of legal owners. It is unfortunate that those legal owners allowed their guns to get in the wrong hands.
Legal gun owners are the source of all illegal guns.
Sorry John.
Not true.
So guns are being produced at factories and passed immediately to illegal hands, nice!
Re: Chaos in USA
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 7:50 pm
by PHXPhlyer
Ghost guns fall through a loophole in gun laws.
They are technically 80% complete lowers/receivers which have to be completed by the purchaser. The sellers will also sell the necessary tooling and instructions to make the lower/receiver ready to have all other necessary components to complete the firearm.
By definition only the lower/receiver of for some guns, the FCU (fire control unit - translation: trigger group) that is treated as the actual firearm for legal - reporting/registering purposes.
Not quite as simple as the picture you paint but apparently not too difficult, however I have no direct knowledge or experience in this area.
PP
Re: Chaos in USA
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 8:18 pm
by TheGreenAnger
Big gun, small dick (i.e. a big dickhead) is often my experience of those who who make a fetish, mental, political, psychological, or otherwise, out of weapons and their "right" to bear arms or whatever... either that or they have a vested commercial interest (stated or unstated) in weapons, both legitimate or illegitimate. I wonder about some of the protagonists here?
I am not anti-gun, I own two weapons, both safely stored in South Africa, which I tend to extract from store and hold discretely at hand in the cubby hole of my car when I visit certain places back there. I am happy to live in the UK where you know that the next nutter you meet (and there are many of them) is most likely not going to be packing a piece.
If you are going to own a gun then at least learn how to use it safely and with responsibility.
Note the explosive boost in 'ghost' guns and do not ignore the comments regarding legally owned guns and the short time between when someone buys a gun and when it turns up in a crime scene, often 1 to 3 years.
Note the explosive boost in 'ghost' guns and do not ignore the comments regarding legally owned guns and the short time between when someone buys a gun and when it turns up in a crime scene, often 1 to 3 years.
One big problem here is the lack of required background checks to transfer guns.
Gun shows and private sales do not require any background checks unlike sales in gun stores, pawn shops, etc.
Mandatory background checks would be one way of cutting down on guns getting into the wrong hands. By making the last registered owner of a firearm to show proof of a legal transfer with documentation of a background check having been performed would at least leave a trail and make someone accountable.
I'm sure, however, this would lead to an increase in "lost/stolen" guns. In other words... "I don't know what happened to it, it just disappeared".
Note the explosive boost in 'ghost' guns and do not ignore the comments regarding legally owned guns and the short time between when someone buys a gun and when it turns up in a crime scene, often 1 to 3 years.
One big problem here is the lack of required background checks to transfer guns.
Gun shows and private sales do not require any background checks unlike sales in gun stores, pawn shops, etc.
Mandatory background checks would be one way of cutting down on guns getting into the wrong hands. By making the last registered owner of a firearm to show proof of a legal transfer with documentation of a background check having been performed would at least leave a trail and make someone accountable.
I'm sure, however, this would lead to an increase in "lost/stolen" guns. In other words... "I don't know what happened to it, it just disappeared".
PP
Trying to legislate for gun control at the level of licensing individual weapons is akin to trying to license every peanut in the multi-millions of packets swashing around the USA on a daily basis. It is completely @*&^*@ insane!
One big problem here is the lack of required background checks to transfer guns.
Gun shows and private sales do not require any background checks unlike sales in gun stores, pawn shops, etc.
Like I said, legal owners are part of the problem.
