Afghanistan (where the war is over)

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Re: Afghanistan (where the war is over)

#41 Post by FD2 »

British soldiers did not die 'in vain', says Boris Johnson, as Taliban sweeps across Afghanistan

Government launches Operation Pitting to evacuate Britons as insurgents close in on the capital Kabul

By Ben Riley-Smith, Political Editor and Ben Farmer 13 August 2021 • 8:26pm

Boris Johnson yesterday said British soldiers killed in Afghanistan did not die “in vain” as the Taliban seized the former headquarters of the UK’s military campaign in the county.

The Islamist insurgents took control of Lashkar Gah, the capital of Helmand province where British operations co-ordinated for eight years during the invasion, as their blitz towards a complete take-over of the country continued.

Three other provincial capitals fell yesterday as the militants came within 50 miles of the capital Kabul, where panic is spreading at the prospect of a Taliban offensive.

Speaking for the first time publicly since sending around 600 UK troops back into Afghanistan to help evacuate Britons, the Prime Minister said the intervention had been had been “right” and “worth it”.

"I don't think that it was in vain,” Mr Johnson said as he discussed the British soldiers that had died in the last two decades in Afghanistan in a brief TV interview.

"To a very large extent the threat from Al-Qaeda on the streets of our capital, around the UK, around the whole of the West was greatly, greatly reduced."

Mr Johnson also noted that three million girls in Afghanistan had been educated in the years that followed.

Speaking after an emergency COBR meeting of his top security and defence advisers called to discuss the deteriorating situation in Afghanistan, Mr Johnson said the UK must not “turn our backs on the country”.

He said Home Office officials had been sent to help bring Afghans who had helped the British forces during their years there, including interpreters, to move to Britain.



Well that makes me feel a lot better, knowing that they did not die in vain. It turns out that their deaths apparently meant a temporary reduction in the risk of Al Qaeda attacks in Britain and indeed the whole of the West. Also officials have been despatched to Kabul to sort out who should be spared and who should be left to die for the crime of helping the British forces. No doubt Biden will be making strenuous efforts to do the same for those who helped American forces, when he can find his way into the White House.

The three million girls who have been educated will no doubt be a tremendous help in restructuring the Afghan economy after the Coalition forces have left - keeping a clean house and having babies. Oh, and better hide their Jezebel hair and faces in case of upsetting their loving husbands in public places.

Doesn't it make us feel proud of our politicians, Bunter in particular, that we can now see the point of all those lost lives? And indeed, not to be too pointed, the huge amount of money it has cost the coalition governments. Thank God it grows on trees these days.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... tum-warns/
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Re: Afghanistan (where the war is over)

#42 Post by John Hill »

Well that's OK then and now you can turn the page and ignore what is going on there.
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Re: Afghanistan (where the war is over)

#43 Post by FD2 »

It will become a closed country now so how could ‘the West’ help in any meaningful way? Maybe let the Chinese bring some of their nation building skills to the party?
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Re: Afghanistan (where the war is over)

#44 Post by John Hill »

FD2 wrote:
Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:43 pm
It will become a closed country now so how could ‘the West’ help in any meaningful way? Maybe let the Chinese bring some of their nation building skills to the party?
Who will make it a 'closed country'?
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Re: Afghanistan (where the war is over)

#45 Post by FD2 »

I think we can call them the Taleban or some spell it Taliban. I don’t think they will welcome infidel Westerners for a few years to come, do you?
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Re: Afghanistan (where the war is over)

#46 Post by John Hill »

I don't really care how others spell their name but I will spell it the way the word sounds when Afghans say it.

Isolation was not on the Teleban agenda 30 years ago and probably not on their agenda now.
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Re: Afghanistan (where the war is over)

#47 Post by FD2 »

What do you think is on the Teleban agenda after they take over again John? Has it changed in those 30 years?
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Re: Afghanistan (where the war is over)

#48 Post by Dushan »

AtomKraft wrote:
Fri Aug 13, 2021 6:24 pm
If any more intervention is required in Afghanistan, we should limit our involvement to nuclear weapons.
Should have been done a long time ago. Couple of B-52s and the problem sorted.
As to what to do with the "friendlies" maybe they can be relocated to NZ. It’s a small country and can benefit from some external DNA to avoid inbreeding.
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Re: Afghanistan (where the war is over)

#49 Post by John Hill »

FD2 wrote:
Fri Aug 13, 2021 10:15 pm
What do you think is on the Teleban agenda after they take over again John? Has it changed in those 30 years?
I thought I had already indicated that the Teleban did not seek isolation 30 years ago and I expect that will not have changed.
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Re: Afghanistan (where the war is over)

#50 Post by FD2 »

I've got a better idea. Get your boys to kidnap some Afghan billy goats and take them back to the States as partners for your redneck women. It would solve the low IQ problem at a stroke! Watch out in case there are any spies amongst the goats though I expect the FBI could interrogate them for bad attitudes. :-bd :ymdevil:

'Friendlies' - I'd take them any day in preference to the billionaires buying their way in here to have somewhere to hide :-s when that day comes...They've already displayed great courage by helping the Coalition.
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Re: Afghanistan (where the war is over)

#51 Post by FD2 »

OK - so they are not seeking isolation. Presumably they will reinstate an Islamic Republic and open their country to free trade and tourism with the rest of the world?

I have no idea how the poppies are doing this summer but I guess they will also be against exporting the opium because of the awful harm it causes. Yes I do know about the Chinese opium wars before that is mentioned, but this is the 21st Century and I'm sure the Taleban would be against the trade nowadays.

Sometimes I almost have a sneaking respect for a regime where thieves lose their hands and other naughty people get stoned to death - it certainly must deter the criminals...
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Re: Afghanistan (where the war is over)

#52 Post by TheGreenGoblin »

In the sprawling compound of Mullah Omar, the Taliban’s first emir, outside the southern city of Kandahar, curious onlookers were poking through his rooms.

There was the little mosque inside the walls, a camel stable damaged by a US rocket, and a series of bare rooms, some scattered with pages torn from a religious text, one a bedroom hung with a picture of an Alpine scene. Nearby, armed men sat on a strange sculpture of a mountain surrounded by spindly palm trees.

It was December 2001, a handful of days after the Taliban’s defeat in the aftermath of 9/11, and the group had fled the city that once was its capital. Mullah Omar himself was gone. And while there was little to learn about the character of the Taliban’s fled leader, Kandahar itself was giving up its secrets.

In houses behind walls in anonymous suburbs, the first reporters to reach the city discovered the training camps of the jihadis Mullah Omar hosted, places where foreign students were taught bomb-making skills and developed plans for attacks abroad, as evidenced by scorched notebooks in multiple languages found on a hastily lit bonfire.

Passing a street in the city centre, a group of men stood watching from a rooftop, one wearing an old Soviet gas mask. Citizens of the city spoke of the Taliban’s brutal rule; of executions by stoning and their own corruption, with many welcoming the group’s fall.

Now Kandahar has turned full circle, falling to the Taliban on Thursday, with the group’s officials once more in charge of the city and already taking meetings in the governor’s office.

“Kandahar is completely conquered. The mujahideen reached Martyrs’ Square,” a Taliban spokesman tweeted, referring to the city landmark.

The significance of the Taliban’s retaking of Kandahar after 20 years should not be underestimated either in terms of history or strategically. Regarded as the capital of the Pashtun-speaking south, Kandahar has always exerted a special sense of gravity on the rest of the country, representing one of its main ethnic faultlines.

What it underlines most powerfully is how the Taliban survived during the long years of the US-led intervention to be able to return to the place where it began.

If the sight of US and British special forces outside Mullah Omar’s house appeared to mark the emirate’s fall in 2001, the appearance of its fighters in Martyrs Square has reified its resurgence.

It was first formed in the early 1990s by members of the CIA-backed Afghan mujahideen, who had resisted the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan between 1979 and 1989, and attracting younger Pashtun tribesmen who studied in Pakistani madrassas in exile.

The first iteration of the Taliban attracted support by promising to end the internecine warlord violence that characterised the Soviet withdrawal.

In the mid-1990s – as now – the Taliban expanded their control of the country, employing Kandahar as their first stronghold, and benefiting from the divisions among the warlords opposing them.

If some things have changed in the intervening 20 years, including the Taliban’s newfound engagement with the world and desire for international legitimacy, others have remained a constant.

As Gilles Dorronsoro noted in a prescient paper for the Carnegie Endowment for Peace in 2009 – The Taliban’s Winning Strategy in Afghanistan – they remain “a revolutionary movement, deeply opposed to the Afghan tribal system and focused on the rebuilding of the Islamic Emirate.”

In some respects, the Taliban never quit Kandahar. In the long interregnum, Kandahar remained connected with exiled leadership of the Quetta shura across the border in Pakistan.

Even at the height of the US-led presence, when the sprawling airbase outside Kandahar, with its cinema, gyms and pizza restaurants, cast its shadow over the neighbouring city, those of us who visited the city independently were told of the districts where Taliban fighters’ families were lodged while the men were fighting.

Beyond the city, in the mulberry groves down by the Arghandab river, as an Afghan colleague once told me pointing to the river, was where the Taliban began.

It was almost most visible in the countryside of the province around the city not least during the surge against the Taliban a decade ago when some fighters fled and others simply melted back into village life and waited.

For now the question of the residents of Kandahar is whether the return of the Taliban to the city will also mark a return to the Taliban’s old ways after claims of the killing of opponents in the city in the past two weeks. Or whether the new era, for however long it lasts this time, represents some kind of departure.

On Friday one Kandahar resident, Abdul Nafi, told AFP the city was calm after the government forces pulled out early on Friday.

“I spent a distressing night as there was fighting, but in the morning it was quiet,” he said. “I came out this morning, I saw Taliban white flags in most squares of the city. I thought it might be the first day of [the religious festival] Eid.”
Excellent article by Peter Beaumont of the Guardian.

The gooks were always in the compound. They never left and they had a burning idea and were prepared to endure, forever if necessary. Thus they prevailed.
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Re: Afghanistan (where the war is over)

#53 Post by TheGreenGoblin »

The Taliban’s Winning
Strategy in Afghanistan
Gilles Dorronsoro


https://carnegieendowment.org/files/tal ... rategy.pdf

True then as it still is now.
A misunderstanding of the insurgency is at the heart of the difficulties
facing the International Coalition in Afghanistan. The Taliban are often
described as an umbrella movement comprising loosely connected
groups that are essentially local and unorganized. On the contrary, this report’s
analysis of the structure and strategy of the insurgency reveals a resilient
adversary, engaged in strategic planning and coordinated action.
The Taliban are a revolutionary movement, deeply opposed to the Afghan
tribal system and focused on the rebuilding of the Islamic Emirate. Their
propaganda and intelligence are efficient, and the local autonomy of their
commanders in the field allow them both flexibility and cohesion. They have
made clever use of ethnic tensions, the rejection of foreign forces by the Afghan
people, and the lack of local administration to gain support in the population. In
so doing the Taliban have achieved their objectives in the South and East of the
country, isolating the Coalition, marginalizing the local Afghan administration,
and establishing a parallel administration (mainly to dispense Sharia justice and
collect taxes). In recent months, a more professional Taliban have succeeded in
making significant inroads by recruiting from non-Pashtun communities.
These developments, and the strength of the insurgency makes the current
Coalition strategy of focusing its reinforcements in the South (Helmand and
Kandahar) unwise to say the least. The lack of local Afghan institutions there will
require a long term presence and therefore a need for even more reinforcements in
the coming year. Meanwhile, the pace of Taliban progress in other provinces (see
map, inside front cover) far outstrips the ability of the Coalition to stabilize the
South. The Coalition should change the priorities of its current strategy, shifting
resources to stop and reverse the Taliban’s progress in the North, while reinforcing
and safeguarding the Kabul region or risk losing control of the entire country.
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Re: Afghanistan (where the war is over)

#54 Post by Rwy in Sight »

It seems those women haven't read John Hill's post about how cool and nice people Taliban are.
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Re: Afghanistan (where the war is over)

#55 Post by TheGreenGoblin »

Dushan wrote:
Fri Aug 13, 2021 11:01 pm
AtomKraft wrote:
Fri Aug 13, 2021 6:24 pm
If any more intervention is required in Afghanistan, we should limit our involvement to nuclear weapons.
Should have been done a long time ago. Couple of B-52s and the problem sorted.
As to what to do with the "friendlies" maybe they can be relocated to NZ. It’s a small country and can benefit from some external DNA to avoid inbreeding.
Wow, thanks for the deep insight and the "winning strategy!". 8-|
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Re: Afghanistan (where the war is over)

#56 Post by John Hill »

FD2 wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 5:02 am
OK - so they are not seeking isolation. Presumably they will reinstate an Islamic Republic and open their country to free trade and tourism with the rest of the world?
That is if they are not prevented by imposed isolation and sanctions.
I have no idea how the poppies are doing this summer but I guess they will also be against exporting the opium because of the awful harm it causes. Yes I do know about the Chinese opium wars before that is mentioned, but this is the 21st Century and I'm sure the Taleban would be against the trade nowadays.
The Teleban may allow opium production to continue but that would be influenced by what other trade options are open to them.
Sometimes I almost have a sneaking respect for a regime where thieves lose their hands and other naughty people get stoned to death - it certainly must deter the criminals...
A public execution can really draw the crowd.
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Re: Afghanistan (where the war is over)

#57 Post by TheGreenGoblin »

John Hill wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 5:36 am
FD2 wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 5:02 am
OK - so they are not seeking isolation. Presumably they will reinstate an Islamic Republic and open their country to free trade and tourism with the rest of the world?
That is if they are not prevented by imposed isolation and sanctions.
I have no idea how the poppies are doing this summer but I guess they will also be against exporting the opium because of the awful harm it causes. Yes I do know about the Chinese opium wars before that is mentioned, but this is the 21st Century and I'm sure the Taleban would be against the trade nowadays.
The Teleban may allow opium production to continue but that would be influenced by what other trade options are open to them.
Sometimes I almost have a sneaking respect for a regime where thieves lose their hands and other naughty people get stoned to death - it certainly must deter the criminals...
A public execution can really draw the crowd.
The intervention in Afghanistan, one of whose stated aims was to reduce the opium trade, resulted in more than a doubling of that trade!

Go figure!
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Re: Afghanistan (where the war is over)

#58 Post by John Hill »

The opium trade is not driven from within Afghanistan but rather from countries to the north.
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Re: Afghanistan (where the war is over)

#59 Post by TheGreenGoblin »

John Hill wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 5:57 am
The opium trade is not driven from within Afghanistan but rather from countries to the north.
Explain?

Good synopsis here..,

https://www.ukessays.com/essays/history ... -essay.php

Opium has been part of the economy in what is now known as Afghanistan for over two centuries or more but the recent uptick started with the Soviet invasion and was exacerabted by cack handed and stupid tactics by the intervention of the colatition...
In 1979, the Soviet invasion decimated Afghanistan’s legitimate agricultural network. Many Afghan farmers turned to subsistence farming of the opium poppy, a transformation assisted by the vacuum in the southwest Asian opium market. This tendency was promoted by the fact that pro¬ts from opium poppy farming were used by Afghani guerrillas to buy weapons to resist the Soviet forces. The Soviet occupation lasted a decade until 1989, during which time Afghanistan opium production increased an average of 15% annually. With the Soviet exodus, the absence of substantial government in Afghanistan provided even greater opportunity for opium poppy cultivation, which continued to increase. By 1994 when the ¬rst comprehensive United Nations survey of opium poppy in Afghanistan was conducted, 71,500 ha of Afghanistan was under opium poppy cultivation. By this time, Afghanistan was established as the world’s major source of illicit opium, accounting for an estimated 60% of potential global illicit production .MacDonald and Mans¬eld (2001) speculated that the “uniqueness” of Afghanistan would lessen the possibility of enforcement tactics having any substantial effects upon illicit opium.

By 2000, Afghanistan was estimated to produce 70% of the world’s potential illicit opium. Due to the greater average yield per hectare of the Afghan poppy however, it only accounted for 37% of the global total area estimated to be under illicit poppy cultivation. Myanmar’s larger area of poppy cultivation was estimated to produce only a third of Afghanistan’s opium. The distinction between poppy cultivation and opium production is important because it is the latter that has the greatest in¬‚uence upon global opium and heroin supplies. Afghanistan and Myanmar together accounted for 93%of estimated potential global illicit opium production in 2000, with Laos accounting for 3.6%, Colombia accounting for almost 2%, and Mexico, Thailand, and Pakistan for less than 1%of production. According to the UN, Afghan farmers reserved the most fertile soil and the most advanced irrigation techniques for opium poppy. The quality of the estimates of cultivation and production is reviewed later. By 2006 Afghan produced almost 92% of the total opium produced throughout the world.
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Re: Afghanistan (where the war is over)

#60 Post by John Hill »

Farmers are paid in advance for their crop by 'agents' of parties in countries such as Tk'stan, Uz'stan and Tj'stan. They must grow the crop and deliver the harvest to pay the debt.

So if the well meaning foreigners come and destroy the crop things get very serious for the farmer who is left with a debt he can never pay.

Somewhat of a generalisation but there you go.
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