The US Hamster Wheel

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John Hill
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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#501 Post by John Hill » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:56 am

Capetonian wrote:Yes, they have a right to demonstrate, that is a perceived benefit of living in a free and democratic society, but wouldn't it perhaps make sense to demonstrate about things they could change in their own sphere of influence, rather than the result of an election on the other side of the world. It would be rather like me being in York, for example, and demonstrating against Robert Mugabe's reign of terror and the death and misery he presides over. Pointless, it's just a pressure relief mechanism.



I just told you, they will make sense if their demonstrations on Queen Street are felt in the Beehive.
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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#502 Post by SOPS » Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:43 am

These morons should be protesting in the KSA about women's rights. See how that would work out for them.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#503 Post by BenThere » Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:06 pm

I think it's an overall good thing that people can go out on the streets and vent their views, emotions, frustrations, and anger. I see it as a safety valve.

In the latest instance, the 'womens' marches in Washington and elsewhere, wearing their little pink hats and deploring the deplorables, reflected poorly on its participants due to the vulgarity, hostility and aggressiveness of featured speakers and the DC march's conjunction with the anarchist depravity with which it will be associated, though I'm sure that was not the intent of organizers.

My overall take on the event was that the preponderance of participants were clueless in virtually every respect. I saw nothing thoughtful about any of it.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#504 Post by obgraham » Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:29 pm

I have two well-educated daughters slavering over these marches.

Neither has been able to explain what the goal of them is, other than "to protest".

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#505 Post by Chuks » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:24 pm

"Vulgarity," Ben? "I can grab 'em by the pussy ... " said the guy you just voted for, revving himself up to plant an unasked for smooch reeking of Tic Tacs on a pretty girl.

That's not vulgar, that's obscene (and illegal, too), so that makes it okay? It's just them wimmins marching and shouting vulgar slogans that is a problem, not this sex attacker in the White House.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#506 Post by BenThere » Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:41 pm

While I'm sure you have never said anything you wouldn't want published, many of us have. Trump's unfortunate remark was not delivered from a podium, but thought to be private. Have you ever uttered the "P" word?

The women I saw were gushing with profanities that no male could ever repeat publicly and pass muster with you, could he, Chuks?

Are you only a prude with regards to Trump or are you really so much more sensitive than I expected?

Edited to add: Great news hot of the wire: Kellyanne Conway reports DJT will not be releasing his tax returns. That ought to get your eyeballs steaming, Chuks!

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#507 Post by Chuks » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:04 am

Ben, Trump himself it was who promised to publish his tax returns. He's breaking a promise he made repeatedly.

Kellyanne, on no evidence whatsoever, simply repeated Trump's wild guess or hopeful assumption (let's not be tedious by claiming that he's lying) that the American people do not care about seeing his tax returns, which must mean that we also do not care about seeing him keep his promises. In fact, a recent survey suggests that many Americans do care about seeing him publish his tax returns. http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... ax-returns

Is that just more "fake news," do you suppose?

We already established that Trump lies, and that you do not care much about the fact that Trump lies, so that there's not much use getting into the way Trump just got the ball rolling as President by telling more lies, backed by the repetition of those lies by his press secretary, with ever-dependable Kellyanne later calling that the presentation of "alternative facts." (Nixon again, when Ron Ziegler spoke of a statement that had become "inoperative," meaning that it had been exposed as a lie.)

Why your scare quotes around "women's" Ben? Do you think they were all transvestites posing as women, or what?

If Trump being quite open about grabbing women "by the pussy" and kissing them unasked, both forms of sexual assault, backed by obscene speech with the rattling of a box of Tic Tacs in the background to make that just perfect, leaves you unbothered, why did you just hoist your skirts in horror at the sight of a noisy public demo featuring mere vulgarity by women? Is it that it's okay for Donald Trump, your pathetic version of an Alpha male, to be obscene and sexually predatory, but it's not okay for women to leave the kitchen or the bedroom to go out in the streets uttering vulgar speech? It looks that way to me.

By the way: Definition of vulgar

1
a : generally used, applied, or accepted : understood in or having the ordinary sense <they reject the vulgar conception of miracle — W. R. Inge>

2
: vernacular <the vulgar name of a plant>

3
a : of or relating to the common people : plebeian : generally current : public <the vulgar opinion of that time>c : of the usual, typical, or ordinary kind

4
a : lacking in cultivation, perception, or taste : coarse : morally crude, undeveloped, or unregenerate : gross : ostentatious or excessive in expenditure or display : pretentious (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vulgar)

Ben, I spent several years in the ranks in the US Army, when I never heard, used or even condoned vulgar speech. No, no drill sergeant ever told me that I looked "like a monkey f*cking a football" as I attempted to do push-ups. Later, no ex-Air Force pilot ever told me that "A suck for SAC is a blow for peace," so that I have no idea what in the world you are asking about, where you get your ideas from about me and vulgarity. Please explain.

On the other hand, have I ever gone up to some random woman to grab her by the pussy or merely to kiss her? Seriously this time, it is "No," again. I am not Donald Trump, not even an admirer of Donald Trump, so that I do not think that behaving that way is okay, nor that I might hope to get away with such behavior. Ben, if you think that's all okay, as you obviously do, why are you complaining about mere vulgarity? Which is far worse, grabbing a woman by her pussy and then bragging about that using obscene speech, or a crowd of women merely shouting "F*ck Donald Trump!" in return?

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#508 Post by BenThere » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:28 pm

Which is far worse, grabbing a woman by her pussy and then bragging about that using obscene speech, or a crowd of women merely shouting "F*ck Donald Trump!" in return?


Why, the women shouting "F*ck Donald Trump", of course.

An interesting discussion between you and I might be about the women who placed themselves in Trump's proximity way back when they considered him 'on the make'. Do you think there may have been some who might have welcomed being so crudely exploited as a trade off for the potential of hooking up with a very, very wealthy man? If not, I can refer you to an extensive library of material about how the world works and has for a thousand years.

By the way, did you also object to President Clinton's sexual adventures? Were you incensed by Hillary Clinton's lies? If not, how do you reconcile your tolerance on the one hand and your fanaticism on the other?

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#509 Post by Chuks » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:23 pm

Give me a break, Ben! What, "They were asking for it," something like that? Women are either whores or saints, and anyone who stands close to Donald Trump, knowing who he is, must be a whore? Some of those women, people if you want to look at them that way, had to work for the man, when they were looking for work, not for a groping and a kissing, tiny hand on the wazoo, warty tongue stuck down the throat. Yecch.

"She deliberately provoked me!" Yeah, put 'em all in burkas; that will solve the problem of Trump being compelled to grab them, to kiss them! Funny, Ben, but I never took you for an Islamist ....

My fanaticism? Say what? You are the guy who asked for an example of Trump lying and then had to be dragged to an understanding of that obvious lie.

I said "Jersey City," quoting Trump exactly, you said "somewhere in New Jersey." I said "thousands and thousands," you said, "some." I came up with one very deliberate, rather vicious lie, which you understood as just a highly nuanced suggestion that there certainly must have been at least a few Muslims somewhere in New Jersey who cheered 9/11. That's your fanatical belief in Donald Trump, not my fanatical hatred of him. I don't hate him; I just know him and fear him as a lying toad who is now our President.

I understood perfectly well what Bill and HIllary have got up to, and while I did not approve, I found none of that to be as troublesome as what the Donald did and does. Now, only one of the three is the 45th President, so that Donald Trump is the one who worries me.

You Trump supporters go ahead with looking over your shoulder at what Bill and Hillary got up to if you want to, but that means missing what Donald Trump gets up to right in front of you.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#510 Post by BenThere » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:33 pm

but that means missing what Donald Trump gets up to right in front of you


So far, I'm quite pleased, on his first working day, as I expected to be. The trivialities that animate you entertain me, but your dwelling on them is becoming tiresome. You need to come to terms with the new world. If you don't it can eat you up, Chuks.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#511 Post by Chuks » Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:44 pm

Remember this exchange, Ben. We can come back to it in about six months. By then it will be "Hillary who?" and wised-up, peed-off yahoos chucking rocks at Donald Trump, I reckon. Time will tell.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#512 Post by BenThere » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:48 pm

By then it will be "Hillary who?" and wised-up, peed-off yahoos chucking rocks at Donald Trump


We've already got that. You do read your own posts, don't you, Chuks?

I will be happy to review the state of the union in July with you.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#513 Post by Octopussy2 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:12 am

I cannot fathom a world where a future president boasting about sexually abusing women with impunity is a "triviality". For all our different outlook on life, I'd previously inferred from your posts that you were a decent man,Ben, with a moral compass.

I was obviously misguided in concluding that.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#514 Post by Chuks » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:43 pm

To be fair, I think that "Trump" is a bit unreal, something off "reality television." For people such as Ben it's not as if a real man (when Donald Trump is obviously not what we would call a real man anyway, but just a pussy-grabbing, draft-dodging, whiny, spoilt, rich mamma's boy) was doing all these nasty things to real, live women.

All of this played out in the world of "reality television," no more real than Mama June and that horrible little brat of hers, Honey Boo Boo, who was being ruined for life right in front of the audience's eyes, when nobody seemed to think that anybody should do something! If that were a real mother and a real child I bet that Child Protection would be onto them like a hawk, but no, because they were not real in any way that mattered.

Billy Bush heard all this about the Donald's bad behavior, as did Howard Stern, but did anyone bother to tell Donald that a real man should not behave that way? Okay, a few women sued him, and lots more complained, but they were probably all having their period, with blood coming out of their whatevers. You know, that thing God put there for you to grab! Millions of voters seemed to tell Donald that was okay, when the only excuse for that I can think of is that it wasn't real to them, but merely "reality television."

Now Ben just gets a chuckle out of me being bent out of shape about Donald Trump getting away with his sex crime and the rest of it. That is not to say that some creep should ever get away with doing anything remotely similar to anyone who matters to Ben personally, God forbid! (Imagine Ben just looking on as his own Cousin June created Niece Honey Boo Boo. No, I am sure that he would do something about all that.) No, it's just okay with him to see this "Trump," this papier maché fun figure of a President, wheeled into our nation's highest executive office because that winds up the "libtards," Har-har-har. The real harm that the real Trump has done, will do ... Ben and his cadre have not stopped to imagine what that was, what that might be.

I can wait. I'm parked over here in Germany anyway, hoping that Angela Merkel and the rest of the EU leaders figure out ways to counter whatever goofy stuff Trump comes up with. Yeah, some of my German friends laugh at me for the way we voted in this complete, raving douchebag, but it's not as if I were in the States depending on the Affordable Care Act. Then I might not be so sanguine.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#515 Post by BenThere » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:04 pm

I appreciate your previous esteem and I'm sorry to have lost it. I'll try to be a better person and poster.

My objective hasn't been to excuse boorish behavior, but to make the point that such matters shouldn't be the final arbiter of a key leader's suitability, but an element in the mix of the overall assessment. No doubt Neville Chamberlain was a more decent man than Churchill, a man given to tippling, insulting women, and writing negatively about Muslims. Jimmy Carter is a fine man, but was an awful president. And I find it duplicitous that Trump's detractors, outraged at his sexual insensitivity from years ago, (they had to go back 30 years to find Jeff Sessions, described by some as the finest gentleman in the Senate, as having said a bad thing), took the contemporaneous and credible rape and unwelcomed groping accusations against President Clinton, while he was in office, in stride.

I also made the point that few of us have not said and done things we should be ashamed of over our lives. If you insist on PC perfection, you end up with mediocrity or worse.

Most importantly, Trump won because he supported pushing back on federal overreach and returning power to state and local government, where it belongs as set forth in the Constitution. He wants to limit the economic strangulation caused by overregulation. He wants rule of law to once again prevail. He rejects the division of the American people by ethnicity, gender, religion, and class. He supports fiscally sound government and tax relief. He promotes the revitalization of the US industrial economy and reducing the cost of international involvement, including military interventions. He supports Israel, and wants to fight the real enemy, Islamism. I like all of that, and it transcends the importance of his past improprieties in my view.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#516 Post by Octopussy2 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:00 pm

"My objective hasn't been to excuse boorish behavior" - (some might quibble with the use of "boorish", preferring, er, "criminal" but hey...) - do you not understand that that is EXACTLY what you are doing? In other words, "boorish" behaviour you wouldn't tolerate from Mike next door, you tolerate because Trump may turn out to be America's saviour - interesting example of moral relativism. By saying his potential "transcends" his behaviour, you are excusing that behaviour, you're saying, in the scheme of things, that doesn't really matter. So let's not kid ourselves about that.

I don't think the comparison to Churchill holds, by the way - if "tippling" and "insulting women" (whom, as I recall, were fellow politicians, which is part of the game and presumably he did it whilst standing a respectful distance away rather than grabbing them by the, er anything) - if those are the best (worst) examples against Trump's current rap sheet (and this is BEFORE he has to bear the pressures of office, people), then I think it's rather a non-starter.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#517 Post by Magnus » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:04 pm

Can we just reflect for a moment that Trump so far is proven to CLAIM that he did those things. If other proof turns up showing him to be GUILTY of the claimed actions then that indeed would be criminal behaviour. At the moment, "boorish" is established by his boasting. A gentleman never tells.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#518 Post by Chuks » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:14 pm

"He [Trump] rejects the division of the American people by ethnicity, gender, religion, and class."

Ethnicity. Trump on Judge Gonzalo Curiel, American citizen, born in America to parents who had emigrated from Mexico: “Everybody says it, but I have a judge who is a hater of Donald Trump, a hater. He's a hater. His name is Gonzalo Curiel and he is not doing the right thing….So what happens is the judge, who happens to be, we believe, Mexican, which is great. I think that's fine." Yeah, aside from him being a hater because he's a Mexican it's fine; it's great. Too bad he's not an American, but nobody's perfect.

Gender. Trump on gender: "“Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything.” Spoken while married to Number Three, Melania.

Religion. Trump on Muslims: "Donald J. Trump is calling for a complete and total shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on." U.S. Constitution on Muslims: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof .... "

Class. Okay, Ben. One out of four! Trump on class: "I love the poorly educated!" Big-hearted guy, that Donald! Too bad about the little hands, the way that they just get everywhere, but what a heart!

Magnus, numerous women have sued Trump, giving sworn testimony under penalty of perjury about having been attacked by Donald Trump in the same way that he was caught boasting about that. I think that this time, just for once, we can take Donald Trump at his word.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#519 Post by BenThere » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:34 pm

According to Rasmussen poll results, released today, President Trump has 57% approval. Apparently what he is doing, approving the controversial pipelines, freezing government personnel hiring, calling for a 75% reduction in regulation, promoting American jobs, etc., is selling, despite the case being made that he was an ogre in the past. Most people apparently see him today as an overall good guy, with a beautiful family, strong work ethic (does anyone claim his predecessor had a work ethic), and a positive and optimistic vision for America.

I recognize the agony of those with priorities they feel are being disregarded, but I remain quite pleased with the results of our recent election.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#520 Post by BenThere » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:37 pm

Did you see this one, Chuks? What do you think?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/01/24/go ... ities.html

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