BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

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Do you think the UK leaving the European Union would be a good thing?

Poll ended at Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:51 pm

Yes
36
72%
No
14
28%
 
Total votes: 50

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Alisoncc
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BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#1 Post by Alisoncc » Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:51 pm

I suspect that most of the Ops-Normal patrons would have an opinion on whether the UK would be better served by exiting the EU. My thoughts are that whilst the Schengen Agreement has a lot going for it in theory, in practise, is another thing. The ability to control access to your place of abode, settlement, village, town, territory has always played a significant role in our civilisation. Throwing open the doors to all and sundry is in my opinion a recipe for disaster, which can only get worse. The English Channel has served the UK well over many centuries. It might be time to raise the drawbridge if not too late already.

As a confirmed Europhile I grieve for the Europe I once loved. Now destroyed by the truly massive influxes of non-European ethnicities over the last three/four decades. Previously I have strolled The Strand, Kurfürstendamm, Champs-Élysées and others alone late at night with little concern for my safety. Marvelled at the architecture of La Grande-Place without having to constantly look behind me. Those days will never return. Which greatly saddens me.

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PS. Members can re-vote should they change their minds. Just click on the revised choice and submit vote.
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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#2 Post by Capetonian » Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:09 pm

The EU is probably the second biggest con in the history of mankind.

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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#3 Post by 500N » Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:10 pm

" Schengen Agreement has a lot going for it in theory, in practise, is another thing."

It would have been good if they had 100% control of the external borders and put in place a few restrictions
so the burden didn't end up on one or a few countries with the better benefits.

I think the UK should Exit.

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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#4 Post by 4mastacker » Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:47 pm

I've never been a fan of the EU, I was never asked asked if I wanted to join the EU and I voted 'No' in the 1975 referendum. I think that indicates the way I shall be voting.
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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#5 Post by om15 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:51 am

Looks like Brexit is becoming inevitable, unfortunately focused on these sad events.

I was convinced that we should remain in the EU, then I thought about it and changed my mind, based mainly on the complete impossibility of accepting that the UK should be run by incompetent, unelected, and socialist Germans.
Who would think that is a good idea.

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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#6 Post by handsfree » Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:16 am

In 1975 I voted to stay in the European Economic Community.
What I did not vote for was the aims of what has become the EU; a European Superstate
subsuming the authority of it's nation states.
I shall be voting out.

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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#7 Post by unifoxos » Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:18 am

Problem being that DC is liable to announce all sorts of "agreements" with the EU to achieve what we want in the UK, conning the floating voters into voting for staying, only to find afterwards that due to some other EU regulations we will nt be getting what we thought we were. It's time we ran our own country again.

Bonus if it means a new referendum for Scottish devolution!
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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#8 Post by msdad2 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:51 am

I certainly think that leaving the EU would be a good thing and will be voting "Leave".
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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#9 Post by frostbite » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:46 pm

"I've never been a fan of the EU, I was never asked asked if I wanted to join the EU and I voted 'No' in the 1975 referendum. I think that indicates the way I shall be voting."

Thanks, saved me some typing there.
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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#10 Post by Mrs Ex-Ascot » Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:36 pm

In 1975 I was 11 years old and with my limited life experience /knowledge was embarrassed by my parents filling house and car windows with "No to the Common Market " I thought it was a good idea. And if it hadn't developed into the EU we have now I would probably think the same.

The EU in my opinion is a large Black hole where money disappears and most tax payers don't get what they believe they deserve. What they do get is a lot of stupid laws and regulations. Schengen is a disaster. And more so is the Euro. The Greeks are suffering a double whammy; economic problems and being the destination of choice for goodness how many refugees. And the EU still isn't pulling it's weight in Greece.

If I could vote I would vote for the UK to leave the EU. The EU of today is not what my parents didn't vote for; my father if he was still alive and my mother if she didn't have Altzeimers would both be saying "told you so " [-(
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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#11 Post by Tall Bird » Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:44 pm

At the moment I'm In although I wasn't impressed with the campaign leaflet delivered yesterday. Quite a lot of EU money went to the East Midlands area to supplement central gov't subsidies in order to generate redevelopment 'initiatives' in the former coalfields and steelworks areas. I don't like the lack of accounting for the dosh (what no audits?), the gravy train exs and the other scams. Nor do I agree with Schengen but there's talk amongst the countries in the Area about reviewing and re-defining the Agreement in the light of the 'refugee' influx. Given Schengen is cited as a major concern in the Referendum debate, can we afford to wait and see what happens? Probably not.

A couple of weeks ago I read judicial review abstracts involving Human Rights Act cases and the right to a family life as guaranteed under the European Convention. The persons concerned, an illegal immigrant and a visa outstayer, were fighting deportation to relatively safe countries on the grounds that they now had family in the UK and the right to enjoy life with partners and children. Yet again I thought there are many of us who, not always by choice, are separated from our families/close partnerships and remain thousands of miles apart. Why can't defendants in some of these HR cases return to their country of origin and save up the airfare like the rest of us?

TB sitting on the fence pro tem

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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#12 Post by rgbrock1 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:02 pm

I've cast my vote in the affirmative. Although an American I still feel the UK would be better served by an exit from the EU.
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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#13 Post by Dirk » Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:49 pm

Had enough of being ruled by a mad german women, an ultra-arrogant Luxembourgish **** and a Polish ex-historian, none of which was elected by my country.

Time to GTFO

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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#14 Post by BenThere » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:40 pm

I don't have a vote, either, only an opinion.

I believe in the general principle that the more authority is localized, the more effective and responsive government will be. In the case of the US, the federal government has become so enormous and over-reaching that it no longer serves the people so much as it seeks to increasingly control them. Our Constitution was written to retain significant powers at the sovereign state level, but the feds have usurped so much of that power that there's very little state power or authority left. The EU has done the same thing, only it did it much faster. This is the big reason I supported Scottish independence.

Certainly some matters, such as defense, core universal rights and their protection, benefit from larger collectives, but limits to central authority are critical and must be guarded against mission creep that tend to take away individual Freedom.

So I strongly encourage Brex.

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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#15 Post by rgbrock1 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:51 pm

BenThere wrote:I don't have a vote, either, only an opinion.

I believe in the general principle that the more authority is localized, the more effective and responsive government will be. In the case of the US, the federal government has become so enormous and over-reaching that it no longer serves the people so much as it seeks to increasingly control them. Our Constitution was written to retain significant powers at the sovereign state level, but the feds have usurped so much of that power that there's very little state power or authority left. The EU has done the same thing, only it did it much faster. This is the big reason I supported Scottish independence.

Certainly some matters, such as defense, core universal rights and their protection, benefit from larger collectives, but limits to central authority are critical and must be guarded against mission creep that tend to take away individual Freedom.

So I strongly encourage Brex.


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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#16 Post by Pinky the pilot » Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:13 am

The federal government is our servant, not our master!"


Something which IMHO, of which the current crop here in Australia need to be reminded, and forcibly as well! X(
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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#17 Post by Ibbie » Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:19 am

Some of us (ex-pats) now live in other EU states. When we retired several years ago, that decision was based partly on the UK being in the EU. There are financial implications of the UK leaving for us, mostly negative. Many of us cannot afford or want to return to the UK if we could.
Moving goalposts by a vote to leave is simply not an option or acceptable and if there is a vote to leave, the UK Government should offer us compensation.

Had the UK not been in the EU when we originally had to make the decision to move to another member state and the implications known,we may not have made the decision to move.

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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#18 Post by Capetonian » Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:52 am

I know a number of people in the situation outlined by Ibbie, and he's correct in his expressed concerns, although I disagree with this :
Moving goalposts by a vote to leave is simply not an option or acceptable and if there is a vote to leave, the UK Government should offer us compensation.
I am not aware that there was ever an affirmation that the United Kingdom would remain in the EU until the end of time as result of an irrevocable treaty. History is full of changes. I see no reason why compensation should be offered. If you buy a 2015 car and in 2016 a better model is introduced, you don't go back to the manufacturer and expect compensation, if you want the better one you cough up for it.

What concerns me is the propaganda put out by the 'remain' brigade, the blatant scaremongering about the impact that a 'leave' vote will have on GB citizens living in the EU. People have moved, lived, and worked across borders since time immemorial, and whilst there may have been greater formalities involved than at present, and these may be resurrected, it's not all negative, and in the light of the current Islamic invasion of Europe, tighter controls might be a good thing. I would certainly welcome them and I travel to, from, and within the EU/Schengen zone more than most people, even if it means having to have my passport checked at reinstated borders, or even filling in forms and changing currencies.

Given the large number of GB citizens in the EU, most of whom are net contributors one way or another, it seems unlikely that they will be flung out on their ears on 24th. June. It may well be that in time they will have to fill in forms and apply for residence permits of some kind and to register for health care, but the latter is no different from what happens now, the only difference that under the EU it is more or less automatic. They may have to exchange GB driving licences for local ones, they may have to cough up a bit more for (arguably) better health care in some countries. They've made a choice of a better life style for themselves and it's not unreasonable that this should come with a cost.

There was a good article (I'm not saying I agree with it!) in Monday's FT and I will scan it after breakfast and post it here.

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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#19 Post by Capetonian » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:12 am

Image

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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#20 Post by Ibbie » Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:23 am

Everyone's situation and reason for having left are different Ct.

Both my wife and I had serious health issues and whilst we are better health wise here, we were forced out of the UK by a combination of the Blair Administrations treatment of the long term sick, GP's( Quacks) who couldn't and did not want to understand situations and refused to accept that you couldn't return to your previous employment despite a specialist saying so and refused to sign off claims for an insurance that covered this. So called Occupational Health specialists who also didn't understand complex conditions and realised it was in their client ( the employers), who was paying their bill, best interest to dump you and a UK wide HR industry where if you applied for a job and just mentioned what we had suffered from and still were receiving ongoing preventative treatment for, wouldn't offer you a job, despite the Blair Government and the doctors saying there were no barriers/prejudice.

If we had stayed in the UK we could not have afforded to live comfortably and my wife would have gone down hill rapidly and would probably not be alive today.

Yes I am bitter.

So before anyone votes to leave the EU, just think. You could have been me and still could be, in a similar situation.

My wife and I were shafted by UK plc over 20 years ago and now they will probably get another chance if people listen to the likes of Boris, Farrage and Ian Dunking Smith, who are all financially well off, not your mister average and are simply looking to further their own careers/wealth/fee incomes by getting you to vote to leave.It does not matter to the likes of them as to the outcome.

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