BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

[Magnus]

Yep; ECJ gets to say, and the UKSC doesn't. Well said, young James.

[llondel]

So how's it going with the EU's demand that the ECJ gets jurisdiction over EU nationals in the UK post-BREXIT? I wonder what they'd think of the idea of UK citizens in the EU being subject to the UKSC and not the ECJ?

[Magnus]

It's absolutely fekn appalling, and that kind of demand for primacy of jurisdiction is the primary reason why I voted to leave.

[om15]

It's absolutely fekn appalling, and that kind of demand for primacy of jurisdiction is the primary reason why I voted to leave

Exactly, this is a typical example of a unarguable reason for leaving, not discussed by the remainers who prefer to pretend that we voted to leave because we are all geriatric and wish to live in the past.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/ton ... ve-brexit/

This is an interesting article, Tony Abbott the former Prime Minister of Australia feels that we are being too timid about Brexit and I agree with him. Mrs May has not lived up to my expectations, I hope to be proved wrong.

[llondel]

Mrs May has not lived up to my expectations, I hope to be proved wrong.

The whole approach from the UK team has been a disgrace, almost as if they really didn't want to leave. The whole team should have been turfed out months ago and replaced by those who actually wanted to leave, so they could go for the best deal instead of messing around with staying in the customs union or keeping freedom of movement and all of that. They should have gone in with "We're assuming No Deal", let's talk about the things we need to fix up to make that work for both sides.

[Jetex Jim]

Brexit to be put on hold until the investigation is complete?

https://www.ft.com/content/2401bf9a-ddd ... ae5495d92b

The UK National Crime Agency is investigating Arron Banks, the insurance entrepreneur who was a key pro-Brexit donor in the EU referendum, following a probe into him by the elections watchdog.

The Electoral Commission said on Thursday that it believed “a number of criminal offences may have been committed” after investigating Mr Banks and some of his companies.

The commission referred Mr Banks to the NCA after examining £8m of funding that he and his group of insurance companies were reported to have provided to Better for the Country, an entity controlled by him, and Leave.EU, the pro-Brexit campaign group founded by him.

Following its investigation, the commission said it had “reasonable grounds to suspect” Mr Banks was “not the true source” of the £8m of loans.

It said some of the loans involved Rock Holdings, another company controlled by Mr Banks, which the commission described as an “impermissible company” given it was incorporated in the Isle of Man.

Under UK law, loans and donations in elections and referendums can only come from certain permissible sources, which excludes overseas funding.

The commission went on to accuse Mr Banks and Elizabeth Bilney, Leave.EU chief executive, of concealing the “true details” surrounding the £8m of financial transactions.

As well as Mr Banks and Ms Bilney, the commission also referred Better for the Country and Leave.EU to the NCA.

Better for the Country ran Leave.EU’s campaign on its behalf, and paid its referendum expenses, said the commission.

Bob Posner, director of political finance and regulation at the commission, said: “We have reasonable grounds to suspect money given to Better for the Country came from impermissible sources and that Mr Banks and Ms Bilney . . . knowingly concealed the true circumstances under which this money was provided.

“This is significant because at least £2.9m of this money was used to fund referendum spending and donations during the regulated period of the EU referendum.

“Our investigation has unveiled evidence that suggests criminal offences have been committed which fall beyond the remit of the commission. This is why we have handed our evidence to the NCA to allow them to investigate and take any appropriate law enforcement action. This is now a criminal investigation.”

The NCA confirmed it was investigating following the referral by the commission, saying: “Our investigation relates to suspected electoral law offences covered by that referral, as well as any associated offences.

“While electoral law offences would not routinely fall within the NCA’s remit, the nature of the necessary inquiries and the potential for offences to have been committed other than under electoral law lead us to consider an NCA investigation appropriate in this instance.”

News of the NCA investigation into Mr Banks will deepen the controversy around him and other figures at Leave.EU.

The organisation was not the official pro-Brexit campaign group during the referendum campaign but spent heavily and played a key role.

Some observers have said Leave.EU was particularly influential in working-class, Labour-voting constituencies with its populist, anti-immigrant message.

Mr Banks said in a statement issued through Leave.EU: “I am pleased that the Electoral Commission has referred me to the National Crime Agency. I am confident that a full and frank investigation will finally put an end to the ludicrous allegations levelled against me and my colleagues.

“There is no evidence of any wrongdoing from the companies I own. I am a UK taxpayer and I have never received any foreign donations. The Electoral Commission has produced no evidence to the contrary.”

[om15]

Brexit negotiations seem to be doing very well, all the doom and gloom project fear stuff has been debunked, economy on the up, people relaxed with the future potentials, with Italy lining up to be the next one to leave.
Spanish backtracking on Gibraltar, Frogs backtracking on almost everything, and the Jerries' wondering how they are going to pay for it all, apart from a few lonely Remainers left grumbling to themselves and a few more boxes to tick and then we shall be out, can't wait.

[Magnus]

I'd be more impressed were there to be an investigation into the vast sum spent on Project Fear propaganda masquerading as a "government information leaflet" and posted through every letterbox in the country. Level playing field?

[compo]

Beer & baccy shares are about to take a hit. Word on the street has it that a scurrilous MEP has been promoted to "under active investigation" by the FBI

[Jetex Jim]

Brexit negotiations seem to be doing very well, all the doom and gloom project fear stuff has been debunked, economy on the up, people relaxed with the future potentials, with Italy lining up to be the next one to leave.
Spanish backtracking on Gibraltar, Frogs backtracking on almost everything, and the Jerries' wondering how they are going to pay for it all, apart from a few lonely Remainers left grumbling to themselves and a few more boxes to tick and then we shall be out, can't wait.

Om15, how nice to hear from you.

And what's the weather like in the land of Narnia?

[om15]

A bright start, sun is out and things are looking good.
Further good news on the Brexit front this morning is that Portugal is preparing to by pass the EU and hold trade talks directly with the UK, the likelihood of a "no deal" situation would devastate their economy they have stated.

[ian16th]

A bright start, sun is out and things are looking good.
Further good news on the Brexit front this morning is that Portugal is preparing to by pass the EU and hold trade talks directly with the UK, the likelihood of a "no deal" situation would devastate their economy they have stated.

Aren't they our oldest allies? From 13 dot or some such.

[Jetex Jim]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... rexit.html

Now this is interesting, the Daily Mail seems to have changed its tone on Brexit. Here they are with the Aaron Banks case.

He (Aaron Banks) is undoubtedly wealthy. But for the last 12 months his ability to give away such a large sum of cash to the Brexit campaign has come under scrutiny.

He has said his fortune was built on a raft of business successes. Critics – and yes many of them are pro-Remain campaigners – argue that the figures simply don’t stack up.

His four diamond mines in South Africa and Lesotho – a region where he has spent considerable time since 2014 – are said to be ailing if not moribund, for example.

His insurance companies have owed millions; his bank on the Isle of Man was performing ‘poorly’; his stake in a law firm was far smaller than advertised.

One investigation calculated the money he had supposedly donated to the Brexit campaign constituted half of his lifetime’s total earnings, which did not make sense.

Official action has been slow in coming, if not apathetic.

A change of heart by one of the pro-Brexit arms of the Lügenpresse will surely lead to some cognitive dissonance among its fan base on here and in TOP.

[Schroedinger]

Wir können nur hoffen......

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[om15]

wir sind wieder unterwegs

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[Nick Riviera]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... rexit.html

Now this is interesting, the Daily Mail seems to have changed its tone on Brexit. Here they are with the Aaron Banks case.

He (Aaron Banks) is undoubtedly wealthy. But for the last 12 months his ability to give away such a large sum of cash to the Brexit campaign has come under scrutiny.

He has said his fortune was built on a raft of business successes. Critics – and yes many of them are pro-Remain campaigners – argue that the figures simply don’t stack up.

His four diamond mines in South Africa and Lesotho – a region where he has spent considerable time since 2014 – are said to be ailing if not moribund, for example.

His insurance companies have owed millions; his bank on the Isle of Man was performing ‘poorly’; his stake in a law firm was far smaller than advertised.

One investigation calculated the money he had supposedly donated to the Brexit campaign constituted half of his lifetime’s total earnings, which did not make sense.

Official action has been slow in coming, if not apathetic.

A change of heart by one of the pro-Brexit arms of the Lügenpresse will surely lead to some cognitive dissonance among its fan base on here and in TOP.

Yet that article absolutely does not imply a change of heart over Brexit. It concerns Banks and his finances. The Mail is totally pro Brexit as it has always been so you are being disingenuous at best with your comments.

You keep posting things that are verifiably incorrect around this topic. Makes you look a little desperate in your search for items that back up your beliefs.

[Jetex Jim]

Don't take my word for it, here's what the FT said on the subject.
https://www.ft.com/content/b706c2c0-a0a ... b7a9ce36e4

Shortly after Geordie Greig was appointed as the new editor of the Daily Mail this summer, John Major addressed him and other guests at a private dinner in London.

The former prime minister, who is against Brexit and who has called for a second referendum, said that Mr Greig now had “the power and the potential to change the political discourse of our country”, according to one person present.

Sir John, who is on a family holiday, was unavailable for comment. But throughout Westminster and beyond, there is a keen interest in whether the Daily Mail, a strident advocate for Brexit under outgoing editor Paul Dacre, will change when Mr Greig takes over in September.

Like Sir John, Mr Greig supported the Remain campaign ahead of the Brexit referendum and under his stewardship, the Mail on Sunday, the Daily Mail’s sister paper, has questioned the government’s Brexit strategy in its editorials.

By contrast, the Mail has firmly attacked any critics of Brexit and deplored any attempts to soften the break with the EU or delay the process.

Mr Greig’s colleagues say there is little chance that the Mail will now flip to the other side of the debate, but that there will be some changes. Mr Greig himself did not respond to requests for comment.

“There will be fewer one-sided headlines and quotes from [leading proponents of a no-deal Brexit] Jacob Rees-Mogg and Andrew Bridgen,” said one former Mail on Sunday colleague.

[Magnus]

If Major calls for a second, I'll call for a third. What does a 1-1 draw prove?

[om15]

Magnus, I don't think there would be a draw, the people that voted to leave would still vote leave, joined by former remainers who have changed their mind.
It is noticeable that certain newspapers and media outlets, (even the BBC) that were loud in support for remain are now highlighting the EU intransigence and refusal to compromise in the negotiations, we are now being excluded from the Galileo system, despite paying a billion into the project, reason, because we are a security risk ffs.
I think that there is now a realisation that the sooner we are out and establishing a low tax Hong Kong type economy to challenge the EU the better, so why not have a second referendum, we would still comfortably win it.

[ian16th]

If Major calls for a second, I'll call for a third. What does a 1-1 draw prove?

We have already had two.

Harold Wilson organised the 1st one in 1975!

The 2016 one was the second referendum on the UK's continued membership of whatever European grouping was then current.