BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

[om15]

Is there anyone left who supports remain? if so they have gone very quiet, a few weeks ago the television screens were full of Soubry, Cooper, Grieve et al, now not a sign. This unpleasantness from Tusk is because the realisation that we are going, possibly with a no deal, is now quite clear, the remainers have lost.

Did anyone see the clip of the Speaker on this topic, responding to Peter Bone, he (the speaker) is a very angry and petulant man, can't wait to see him binned without a peerage, absolutely odious.

The Oirish are now approaching a rather impossible situation, although they seem to think that sucking up to the EU will solve it for them, you would think they would stop digging, although the bright side of all this is that the population in the North are increasingly favouring joining the South, if that were to occur it would solve the problem and benefit the English financially, so some good may come of this as well.

[AtomKraft]

It's going to be 'no deal' or possibly a managed version of same.

There's a reason so many voted, to LEAVE.

Maybe it's becoming clearer these days, to those who couldn't see it before.

[Capetonian]

Did anyone see the clip of the Speaker on this topic, responding to Peter Bone, he (the speaker) is a very angry and petulant man, can't wait to see him binned without a peerage, absolutely odious.

He is odious and pompous but I find him amusing and fascinating, there is something compelling about his performances. I wonder what he's like in his private life - probably very funny and good company.

[OFSO]

Steve Bells cartoon is incomprehensible, except perhaps to Guardianne readers. As lover of political cartoons, Gilray etc, I can only say this is trash. Has he never heard of layout/composition ? Or does he draw elements separately and just stick them where there is blank paper ? Matt's OTOH is amusing.

[Boac]

Cape - I await my education.

[om15]

A definition of a cartoon is "A simple drawing showing the features of its subjects in a humorously exaggerated way, especially a satirical one in a newspaper or magazine."

The Guardian as a newspaper seems completely devoid of humour, the columnists (mainly women) are so absorbed in their shill complaining about everything that whimsy doesn't feature. It can be no surprise therefore that such a paper will be unable to produce a cartoon that incorporates humour, it just simply can't do it, nor can it equally complaining readers notice the lack of humour as this isn't part of their lives.

[AtomKraft]

This whole BrExit process, has been caught in the same trap as the Scottish referendum.

It's come down to 'how much poorer are we going to be?'

But that's not the question at all!

Just like the Scottish referendum, it's about the big strategic stuff, like who runs the country, who can come here, who makes our laws?

I wish people, especially 'remainers' would understand what the vote was about.
The poorest have least to gain from Brexit, yet it seems they understand better than others why it's essential. And they voted to LEAVE.

The folk doing better, voted for 'no change' and who can blame them?

It seems to me that the moral high ground is held by those who voted to leave, despite worrying prospects for themselves.

The remainers just voted to hang onto what they've got.

(Btw, I understand that the tiny numbers of very rich, voted like the poor- for the same reasons).

[Pontius Navigator]

AK, I recognise your argument and can't disagree.

I think an open minded remainer would recognise why people voted to leave an undemocratic and autocratic union whose Napoleonic laws are at variance with British law. Such an open minded remained would consider the behaviour of the EU and well change their mind?

[Krystal n Chips]

K&C - I am finding Bell's cartoons 'eye-catching' but increasingly inscrutable. I assume you understand this one. Can you offer a debrief on his ''message'? I assume BoJo is 'bottom' left - if so, what is he meant to be doing? What is the significance of the Thatcher statue in all this? Who is TM 'digesting'? What is the significance of the ?mine? on her head and who is it in the 'balloon' with a ?condom? on his head?

I'm sure it is all very clever but beyond me.

I'm sure it isn't really beyond you, but, I will be delighted to clarify what the cartoon depicts.....top left is Boris. the blonde hair and orifice from which he speaks being a prominent clue here.....Arlene gets a mention, she's down on the left with her fetching bowler hat and little "off the shoulder " Orange Sash number, Dave is emanating from Treeza's posterior, looking remarkably intact although no digestive system in any species could cope in this respect, and looking on the swivel eyed unlamented deceased herself. .....that only leaves the one with the glasses for you to work out.

The overall message of course, is, that Hell has already become evident in the form of the Tory party.

Steve Bells "If" cartoons are available for those wishing to expand their understanding of politics and social affairs.

Matt is a very good political cartoonist, but here a mention of one of the all time greats is warranted......"Giles "..whose only failing was his cartoons were printed in the Excess.

We now return to Brexit less the reincarnation of Mary Whitehouse takes umbrage......

[om15]

AK, when this subject started to be discussed about four or five years ago my first instinct was to remain in the EU, this was prompted by the fact that it provided stability on the continent after the terrible years of the Kaiser, Franco, Hitler and so on, and any price was worth paying to avoid a repeat of the 20th century.
I then starting reading about the EU and thinking about the EU and how it was going, at this time I was travelling and working in the EU and looking at things first hand. I then changed my position to leave based on the fact that in my opinion the EU just couldn't survive in its present form and I couldn't really see that the current EU heads had the wit, experience or desire to address the problems. I didn't really think about my own position, which admittedly was reasonably comfortable at that time.

It is obvious that there will be some difficulties and disruption in the days following Brexit, this of course is being gleefully anticipated by the now diminishing remain supporters, one question that I will ask, if there are difficulties, which organisation do you think will be best placed to recognise these difficulties, act quickly to remedy and sort out the problems, the EU or the UK Government?

[Pontius Navigator]

this of course is being gleefully anticipated by the now diminishing remain supporters,

In TOP the vociferous and die-hard remainers are adamant that remain would win a second referendum though seem generally accept a second referendum is not likely.

[om15]

On TOP there does seem to be a very loud but quite small number of those who support remain, they appear to be in the majority because those who voted to leave don't find it necessary to repeatedly complain about everything on a daily basis. I think that this is true in real life, now the amendments in Parliament have been dealt with the remain camp are very quiet as it becomes obvious that they have failed to overturn democracy.
We can now expect triumphant sniping for a while when the slightest thing goes wrong in the early days following Brexit, in five years time no one will ever admit to being a remain supporter.

[Boac]

Thank you, K&C, but I do not find any wit or humour in that cartoon, from whichever political viewpoint. I take it Mr Bell is a staunch Corbynite? I think most would equally view hell as the Labour party, but I suppose that would not be a subject for Mr Bell. We are, unfortunately, without a 'Paradise' or 'Heaven, at present.

I await his next cartoon with somewhat diminished expectation.

[Pontius Navigator]

I pointed out a short time back how the FTSE had shot up. I was shot down by a remainer commenting on the FTSE movement since some random point like 2015 or so pre Brexit.

My point though was as we approach the cliff the FTSE is climbing not falling. The pound is strengthening against the dollar and Euro.

The repost of course is we haven't left yet. True, but investors don't seem to be running for the hills. My building shares dividend has just been increased by 10%.

[Capetonian]

Some of my investments (not from my choice) and pensions are in Euro. They have done significantly worse over the last 2 years than those in GBP. As an example, one of my Spanish pension funds managed by Wankander Bank has lost 4.74% in the last year, 4.26% in the last trimester, and has gained 0.16% in the last 3 years. I'm just quoting that as the statement happens to be on my desk as I write, but others show similar trends.

But hey ho, the remainers will no doubt be along to blind us with fake facts and prophecies of doom which defy reality.

[Sisemen]

Coincidence? I think not!

Either Donald Tusk is moonlighting as the Australian Labor opposition leader or vice versa. The clincher is that both roles have displayed an enormous amount of ****.

Is it one and the same person? Are they related? I think we should be told!

[Pontius Navigator]

Capetonian, I have to report that my two stocks denominated in Euro are both down. Overall my yield in the current year is over 6%.

[AtomKraft]

Personally, I'm paid in Euros.

Did I even think about that when it was time to vote?

The only folk who voted remain are the crushed middle. They who are so heavily **** by the present situation, that any change will kill them.

[llondel]

Actually I agree. I wish the incompetent politicians, who have made a complete mess of implementing Brexit, a nice warm spot in Hell, and as soon as possible. And of course also the politicians in opposition who stood back and did nothing to keep a check on them.

Yes, now you mention it I find it an attractive notion for that bunch.

[ian16th]

Jeremy Corbyn's Brexit plan 'promising', Donald Tusk tells Theresa May

Is this a grand socialist master plan?