BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

[Pontius Navigator]

Ben, UKIP/Brexit party only really rose to power in irrelevant positions as a bellwether but never to real power.

Om, at the moment my view is the BJ is the man for the moment. Will he reach Churchillan heights, I don't know. Churchill was certainly no pushover.

[Woody]

Not particularly Churchillian

[llondel]

Not particularly Churchillian

Close, but no cigar...

[barkingmad]

In comparison with this sort of BS I will assert that Nigel makes a better orator and communicator than the BJ!!
And there’s no evidence that Nigel would fail to be a statesman but BJ is not maturing as we’d hoped.
Unfortunate initials for our revered PM.......?

[Pontius Navigator]

BM, I agree that NF is a natural orator with excellent diction. BJs forte would appear more literary. WSC was both a natural orator and able wordsmith too.

To me, Boris appears to start making a point but before making it moves on the another thought that pops into his head only to repeat this grasshopper approach.

[barkingmad]

A short 10 minutes to review why we’ve ended up in this predicament;



Calm cool & collected articulate summary pleasing to the ear and what remains of my intellect!

[barkingmad]

And if you agreed with that, here’s one the BBC actually broadcast to the great unwashed;



As usual an intelligent and reasoned case against the EUSSR which wants to suppress any dissent!

[barkingmad]

"The UK pays more into the EU budget than it gets back.

In 2018 the UK government paid £13 billion to the EU budget, and EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4 billion. So the UK’s ‘net contribution’ was estimated at nearly £9 billion.

Each year the UK gets a discount on its contributions to the EU—the ‘rebate’—worth about £4 billion last year. Without it the UK would have been liable for £17 billion in contributions".

fullfact.org figures.

So next time you see a sign saying "This project part-funded by EU", rest assured you're being ripped off as badly as you could by any dodgy savings organisation.

If your local bypass, swimming pool or theatre was built/renovated by this means, then you've just parted with silly monies to achieve the objective

To qualify for the EU contribution, you have to 'match fund' that amount out of your own pocket, so the project which costs in UK alone at for example £4 million sterling needs £2 million putting up plus the £2 million from the EU and for this privilege you've already shelled out more than £6.5 million for the deal.

Would anybody join that Xmas club or deposit their money in a high street bank or building society where that was the deal on the table? I think not.

I doubt that the so-called trading advantages of being a member of this (literally) unaccountable club makes up elsewhere for such a crap deal. And yet apparently intelligent folk want to remain part of it and burrow deeper into the EU SuperState.

[Sisemen]

Interesting. However, a classic public speaking mistake - after a short while my attention was diverted to his handling of his spectacles. I had to force myself to listen and to ignore the tic, to the level where I stopped watching and just listened.

[barkingmad]

A different take on the EUSSR from someone whose country has been well and truly shafted by Brussels, Germany and the banks.

If you haven’t got time to dive into the video just scroll down through the comments and then spare the time later?



His book “And the Weak Suffer What They Must” is an excellent primer on BIG money and the EUSSR’s behaviour.

Though he also has said elsewhere Britain should stay in the EUSSR but that was when UK thought it might be able to grab the helm of this monstrous out-of-control vessel and attempt to steer it in a different direction. That option is fading from sight.
As long as UK ‘negotiators’ go to Brussels grovelling and begging like Cameron and May then nothing will be achieved.

[Pontius Navigator]

Interesting. However, a classic public speaking mistake - after a short while my attention was diverted to his handling of his spectacles. I had to force myself to listen and to ignore the tic, to the level where I stopped watching and just listened.

Yes. Thread drift - a two man presentation at Halton or somewhere. No recollection of place or subject. They had a new electronic white board. Tap the board, new picture. tap - tap, tap - tap, TAP - TAP, TAP - TAP.

Another, resettlement, speaker had a small blob of white glob on his gob. Every few seconds his lizard tongue would flick out, capture the glob and deposit it in the other side.

OTOH I can remember the name and every detail of a retired DCI 's lecture from 20 years ago.

[barkingmad]

Looking forwards to your next chicken curry? Or perhaps not;



The hypocrisy of the EUSSR knows no boundaries. At least in a few years time the family will be gathered round the Christmas table all glowing with good health and no need to spend money on electricity for lighting!!

[barkingmad]

Once again Jeff sums it up nicely.

His clip from Sunday 01 Dec looks at Hung Parliament = 2nd Referendum and gives me some hope.

All in the context of the current marketplace traders touting their promises for our votes but let’s not forget why we’re in this mess in the first instance?

[Woody]

Nigel’s unraveling!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50672611

[Boac]

Yes (with apologies to those readers who are unfamiliar with the expression) - he has really screwed the pooch.

Saw Annunziata on the Beeb today - looks a real ball of fun - must run in the family.

[barkingmad]

3 x Brexit Party MEPs now dumped TBP and run cowering to the Tory party. Do they think the electorate have such volatile memory that they can get away with this?

There's an awful lot of suppressed anger out there at the behaviour of our HoC reps and the antics of these late-in-the-day turncoats and those who've already crossed the floor of the House will not be forgotten by the peasants.

If you want BRINO, vote BoJo. Simples?

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

From a friend of mine in a country Tory constituency, about half her acquaintances are considering not voting Tory this time because they don't trust Boris. Whether they don't, and what they do instead, nobody knows.

[Pontius Navigator]

Fox, and therein lies the problem. We know too much about all the players and none of it good.

The only rational action is to vote for what you consider the least bad option and that has to be BJ or JC. A vote for anyone else risks getting the worst case.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

The least bad option is what most people have been choosing in pretty much every western country for the whole of this millennium. And things continue to get worse. There comes a point when a significant minority are just going to say "F#ck it", and not do that anymore. That's human nature. The current way of doing things offers no hope of long term improvement. The tough will get going. When that happens, where, and what they do instead, I do not know.
Just about everyone, maybe everyone, on this forum has been willing to put up with short term pain for long term gain. We've often changed careers, changed continents, and changed lifestyles to achieve that. We are the tiny minority. But more eventually follow.
You describe short term rationality, but there comes a point when that isn't the long term rationality. All game theory relies on certain assumptions, yet all of us who have served know that sometimes not doing the only rational thing brings victory.

[om15]

I can't think of anything that could happen that might cause a ripple of emotion within the electorate, the most outrageous lies, transparent promises, slanderous statements, deceit and concealment, treachery and dishonesty are now the norm with politicians of all parties, except the lib dems who are just simply naïve beyond belief, none of this stirs any response, we are just immune to any more of it.

The Shadow Home Secretary's son assaults a policeman, doesn't even make the front page, a few years ago this would have swung an election, now no one cares, major industries are relocating their business's offshore because of the threat of nationalisation and no one raises an eyebrow.

BJ has a ten point lead this evening, I can't see any revelation, truthful or otherwise that might change this very much, so at the moment it appears that we will stagger on to goodness knows what with BJ.

I think the press and media have let us down, claims and predictions made by the various parties don't seem to be under much professional scrutiny, news programmes such as Channel 4 have sunk to a level that we might expect in Bolivia or North Korea, with no attempt to do anything else other than slate the Tories while ignoring the threat to civilisation that Corbyn promises.