BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

[OFSO]

Woody, I work with Administrative Tribunals on several levels. Qualification of judges, independence of judges, disclosure of documents, transparency of proceedings, equality of arms, legal representation, all leave lots to be desired. If this sounds like I am distrustful of ATs.....

[barkingmad]

Dec 13th and we awake to the result of “The People’s Vote”, so I trust this song has been permanently dropped from the charts?
Only to be replaced by the sound of the screeching Krankie and the chant of “Indyref2”, the famous once in a lifetime vote-again within 6 years.
There are interesting times ahead.
I trust the local fencing companies in Northumberland will be gearing up to tender for the ‘Jockstrap’ from Berwick to Solway Firth!

[Sisemen]

If Boris has any sense he’ll use his majority to put Indyref 2 so far on the back burner it’ll never see the light of day. Let the Scots get all uppity and see what the ROW thinks of their behaviour if that is the route they take.

[Woody]

The ***** has started already

Boris Johnson has promised to work "night and day" to repay the trust of voters after he led the Conservatives to an "historic" general election win.
With just one seat left to declare, the Tories have a Commons majority of 78.
Speaking in London, the PM said he had a mandate to take the UK out of the EU next month "no ifs, no buts".

[om15]

Boris is chatting to the Queen this morning , and this is my favourite photograph this morning,

Capture.PNG (228.03 KiB) Viewed 336 times

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Right, Friday the 13th for the EU. What happens next?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50777995

If Boris Johnson sticks to his December 2020 timetable, the EU is preparing to offer him a bare-bones Free Trade Agreement (FTA). It says that is the most both sides could aspire to in a matter of a few months.
But plain sailing this is unlikely to be. Brussels plans to insist that in order to get that "quick and dirty" deal, the prime minister would have to sign up to EU conditions: alignment with EU environmental, state aid and tax regulations for example.

The EU bureaucracy and legal strictures, which is why the British people voted for Brexit by all accounts, is still the problem. It is difficult to see how the UK can sign up for a deal with the EU which includes complying with lots of EU conditions for "regulatory alignment", since that is the root cause in the first place. If Boris signs up for this, all he's doing is giving the EU sovereignity and the UK no longer has a say in those regulations. And there's no possible appeal because the WTO doesn't even have a court any more - they are down to one judge after retirements and the US is blocking any replacements at all.
Now obviously the UK will have to sign up for some EU conditions, just as the EU will have to sign up for some UK conditions. However, the original Withdrawal Agreement shows that the EU's initial position tends to be "We'll give you nothing, but we are prepared to put it into a form of words that helps you lie to your electorate." Because, of course, that's what powerful unelected bureaucrats do.
I would like to think that if Boris doesn't produce an effective Brexit trade agreement, then Boris will be out on his ear as firmly as Jezza just has been for ignoring Brexit.

[barkingmad]

a k a BRINO? Nigel has warned about this all along but the Establishment ignored the warning for whatever reasons.
Probably ‘cos they’re die-hard Remoaners.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

They lose nothing everytime they fail, since their jobs are secure, so they'll just keep at it. Same with the BBC, except they are a bit more nervous this time around given Boris has started talking about looking at their funding model. In fact I think the more realistic ones are going to start packing their parachutes.
I'm not talking about politicising the Establishment, but about depoliticising it. Ultimately the politicians just employ the civil servants to do their bidding. And if they arent doing it because of their own biases......
In practice, proving political bias is nigh on impossible. What Canada and the US do is either severly restrict terms of reference and legal powers, or shut down entire departments. It's not just Trump who is doing this, the Liberals have done it too. Attempting to control funding, recruitment and management methods doesn't work, because that's all bureacracy. Unsurprisingly, the bureaucrats are very good at finding ways to nullify that approach. It has to be entire shut downs or major changes in authority (and accompanying major changes in funding, like 75%, not some 5% rubbish).

[BenThere]

Reading this thread I got nostalgic about what BBC used to be. I bought a short wave radio back in the 1970's primarily just to listen to BBC's world-wide coverage, intelligent content, and quality. All that evaporated as time went by. BBC today is a shadow of what it once was, One thing I loved about BBC back then was that during prime time when I had checked into my room at RAF Mildenhall and flicked on the TV there was an erudite and interesting examination of butterflies. That was when BBC was a repository of the world's knowledge and Western Culture. Today it has been reduced to a political hack.

[ExSp33db1rd]

I bought a short wave radio back in the 1970's primarily just to listen to BBC's world-wide coverage,

Ditto, used to carry one around with me. I was in India when the USSR moved into Afghanistan and listened to the BBC, Voice of America and Radio Moscow.

Totally confusing, two totally opposing views from Moscow and V. of A. and a sort of compromise from the BBC.

Just like comments about Brexit !

[Slasher]

Unlike The Times (which shot itself in the foot in 1940) one could once use the Beeb as a support reference for intelligent debate and would be accepted by both sides. Certainly not now.

[OFSO]

Just seen on French TV: President Macron warns Britain not to take unfair (trade) advantage after Brexit.

An admission that EU trade rules don't work.

[barkingmad]

Aah, just please remind me again, who are these ‘French’ we hear so much about in Britain?

I recall a similar sounding nation in chaos and virtual revolution not so long ago. Is that why they’re cautioning the UK to behave?!

[AtomKraft]

The new trade deal will now be done on a level playing field, something that was quite impossible when the UK was committed to leaving and the EU committed to trying to stop us.

Now, they will be as desperate for a deal as we will be. It won't take long.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Well, speak of the Devil; there's me banging on about about the need for radical bureaucratic reform, and 24 hours later....
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... guarantee/

[4mastacker]

Perhaps the CS, in order to get their 'K's, OBEs, MBEs, etc, will have to actually do something extra special over and above doing the job they're paid to do.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Heretic!!

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

When planning Xmas dinner, don't forget to ask for Brexit Sprouts at the greengrocers

[llondel]

Is it just me or does the tweak to the Withdrawal Agreement seem a bit like Boris getting revenge on the Remainers for the way they used the law to try to prevent No Deal? I can see what he's trying to do, it stops them delaying the process if they want to have a deal in place because of the hard stop, but it does strike me as a bit of "see, I can do it too".

[Pontius Navigator]

Nothing concentrates the mind like a deadline.

When there is no deadline then it is easy to procrastinate. We have procrastinated for over 3 years.