BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

[Mrs Ex-Ascot]

Dirk I accept that as I don't live in the UK I can't vote in the referendum. But I am still a citizen of the UK and all my family are still there so of course I am entitled to my own opinion and to show an interest in the original topic of this thread. note -I am a citizen as opposed to RESIDENT of the UK :there is a difference

[Dirk]

Everyone can have an opinion on anything they wish, who could possibly believe otherwise?

[Dirk]

... you want to be able to vote on matters of great concern to those who do actually live here.
If you don't see how absurd that is, you need a check up, from the neck up.

Though my original post had an element of levity apparently lost on you, Dirk, I'll remember your statement as I read the interminable and repeated threads both here and in TOP telling us in America how we ought to be voting.

Meanwhile, please follow my instructions and vote "out"!

Oh, Levity was it?, don't give up the day job

[Flame Lily FX]

Who will be able to vote?

British, Irish and Commonwealth citizens over 18 who are resident in the UK, along with UK nationals living abroad who have been on the electoral register in the UK in the past 15 years. Members of the House of Lords and Commonwealth citizens in Gibraltar will also be eligible, unlike in a general election. Citizens from EU countries - apart from Ireland, Malta and Cyprus - will not get a vote.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32810887

[obgraham]

Dirk:
You still haven't explained why a codger who left 68 years ago can't vote, but one who left 14 years and 11 months can.

Pure age discrimination, IMHO!

[ExSp33db1rd]

Pure age discrimination, IMHO!

Absolutely ! ( or even 32 years )

[ExSp33db1rd]

Dirk

you are not a UK resident,

OK, so remove me ENTIRELY from the UK Tax and Inheritance Tax regime which still demand my attention - go on, do it, otherwise give me the same vote as those who have only recently arrived in Britain, to escape conditions under which they previously lived, and to enjoy the "better life" that they imagined existed in Britain, only to then attempt to change British protocols and customs to maintain those very attributes that they profess to be glad to have left !

[Alisoncc]

British, Irish and Commonwealth citizens over 18 who are resident in the UK, along with UK nationals living abroad who have been on the electoral register in the UK in the past 15 years. Members of the House of Lords and Commonwealth citizens in Gibraltar will also be eligible, unlike in a general election.

I would add to the list veterans of the UK Armed Forces who served in a regular capacity wherever currently domiciled. National Service is perceived as often having being carried out under duress and shouldn't be eligible.

If a person was prepared to voluntarily fight for the British way of life then they should have a vote in whether those rights are freely handed over to European bureaucrats. Those customs, traditions and rights weren't come by easily, and shouldn't be easily foregone.

Alison

[unifoxos]

Back on topic, the best reason for voting remain would be that BoJo the Bozo is campaigning for exit. Not just because he is a 2@ and therefore wrong (that applies to all politicians), but because he is opposing Cammo in the hope of getting his job if the vote goes for exit and Cammo is left looking like the 2@ that he is. The idea of the next general election being fought between parties led by "Conshie" Corbyn and Bojo the Bozo is unthinkable.

[om15]

Yes, I tend to agree with that assessment, Boris appears to be opportunistic in his suddenly announced commitment to the leave campaign. we will see how detailed his arguments for leaving are presented, he has a reputation for being a lightweight with detail.
The Guardian ran a pretty damning article on him yesterday, mind you they would. My worry, being a leave supporter, is that Boris will hog the limelight, and a better case may be presented by Gove, we shall see, I certainly would not be happy to see Boris as leader of the conservative party.
I suspect the results may be very close, with remain winning by a small majority, however anecdotal evidence does show the leave campaign being supported by an increasing number.
There are no doubt very sound economic reasons for EU membership with access to the free market, but not at the price of seeing our way of life being destroyed by immigration and the prospect of being governed by German Flemmish civil servants, I think it is time to go, before it gets worse.

[frostbite]

It is a much more important issue than whether you like the individuals who are campaigning.

[Capetonian]

OK, so remove me ENTIRELY from the UK Tax and Inheritance Tax regime which still demand my attention

If you can prove that you have put down permanent roots in another country, and have no intent of returning to the UK, you can apply to HMRC to lose your English domicile of origin, which is broadly determined by where your father was born. This is an entirely separate matter to residence. The tests are quite strict, some are vague, and the interpretation can differ depending upon whom you ask, and are determined by many factors, including but not limited to :

if you have accommodation available for your use in the UK
if you have financial interests (investments, bank accounts) in the UK
time spent in UK since leaving, number of visits and duration of visits
whether you have immediate family members in UK vs. your country of current residence
and without wishing to sound too morbid, if you have reserved a burial plot in UK you will fail almost certainly fail the test, if in NZ, you may pass.

It is possible for someone who has never set foot in the UK to have an English domicile of birth and not to be able to lose it. It governs your liability for IHT.

If you are resident outside the UK (NOR for tax purposes) HMRC are only interested in taxing you on rental income received from property within the UK.

[lasernigel]

After reading the In people and the out people, the pros the cons. All I can say you have made the decision to leave the UK and must abide by it. You can't have your toast buttered on both sides.
People left for many reasons, blaming a political party as a reason to leave is IMHO not a valid point. We are ruled by democracy and governments change, over the years those of us who saw it out and didn't have the option to leave, ( as we didn't have the means and still had to work), just put up with it and gnashed our teeth and grimaced at the governments ineptitude. Knowing that one day it would change at an election, sometimes for the worse, sometimes for the better.
I want us to leave the EU. My life is in turmoil as I might be going to the US to work until I retire, or I might not. You lucky folk who have retired and can afford to do so abroad good luck. But I for one don't see why for instance you can still claim the winter fuel allowance. Think on how cold it gets here and how the majority of pensioners just exist.
If I can retire outside the UK I will. But I know and respect that I must abide by the laws of the country I retire to, and I will have to keep money to one side to pay for medical treatment and drugs. I will not become one of those who think they can just come back and use the NHS...BECAUSE I PAID INTO IT ALL MY LIFE!
If you don't like my personal reasoning behind my stance fine, but whinge all you want, it won't change the fact that you made made your bed and must now lie in it.

[Capetonian]

I agree with lasernigel's summary with some provisos :

Democracy is a charade. We are persuaded by means fair or foul to vote for a political party based on promises they make. Once in power, those promises are never fulfilled and the electorate feels betrayed and disillusioned, hence the seesawing between the major political parties in most western (so-called) democracies.

I do think that being born, and having paid taxes and charges, in a certain country does give rise to certain rights, although I accept that they should probably be limited after a certain period of absence.

I would like to see the UK leave the EU even though my personal situation could, were I to believe the 'remain' brigade who forecast all sorts of dire sanctions in terms of free movement if the UK were to leave, be worsened. In fact, I would like to see the EU break up, and the snout-digging Bungling Bureauprats of Brussels thrown unceremoniously into the streets of Molenbeek or some similar hellhole that they allowed to exist, to live unhappily ever after until the end of time.

[lasernigel]

Democracy is a charade. We are persuaded by means fair or foul to vote for a political party based on promises they make. Once in power, those promises are never fulfilled and the electorate feels betrayed and disillusioned, hence the seesawing between the major political parties in most western (so-called) democracies.

With you there Capetonian.

[Mrs Ex-Ascot]

lasernigel made some excellent points.

When we left the UK we upgraded our private health insurance to cover us in Greece; and maintained it even when we became residents and could have registered with IKA. When we moved here we upgraded to International cover. We have always ensured that we can be financially independent. We also accept that despite being UK tax payers and citizens we have forfeited our rights to vote as we have lived outside the UK for more than the prescribed 15 years. We do however have many positive reasons to keep our UK passports!

There are reasons why it probably would be better for us personally for the UK to stay in the EU; however personally I would vote out.

[OFSO]

What is the difference between a democratic society and one in a dictatorship ? The latter implies that one person determines all decisions that are made. Well, the regimes of Blair or Merkel..... can anyone really say they were/are not dictatorships ?

[Mrs Ex-Ascot]

And no matter what the results of any referendum may be, the politicians won't necessarily abide by the result will they?

[OFSO]

I have just read an article that says even if the UK Government did want to nationalise the steel industry, EU rules forbid it. Don't know if it's true but once again we see the socialist nature of the thing the boyos in Brussels run: far better to put thousands of people out of work and pay 'em benefits than to put the same money into keeping their jobs going.

(Mind you, not the first time: the way the eurozone was implemented threw millions living in the PIIGS out of work and onto benefits and most are still there.)

[BenThere]

There are reasons why it probably would be better for us personally for the UK to stay in the EU; however personally I would vote out.

It's a noble thing to do and vote what you believe is right for the greater good, considering the effect on coming generations, even when it conflicts with your personal gain or position.