BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

[ian16th]

You missed out their ultimate 'social engineering', the Pay Freezes!

[AtomKraft]

You know, folk have given TM a right doing because of her lack of success in getting a deal.

Two points.
1. Who mentioned a deal anyway?

2. If you start where we started, ie 'Right, we're leaving' how the F are you ever going to manage a deal that's in any way levered in favour of the UK?
You can certainly strike a deal that's very much in favour of the EU! That'll be easy, but what can you do when you've asked for something and the EU said 'non' or 'nein'?
What do you do then? Throw bottles at them? offer to fight them? What exactly?

There is no way to strike a deal that suits the UK until after we've left!

Once we've left, the two parties will be on a much more even pitch than when 27 are trying to prevent the one leaving, and the one leaving has got ZERO LEVERAGE over the 27 who don't want it to go!

I wouldn't have fancied the job, and I've done a LOT of deals.

[Alisoncc]

Been thinking about how come we got into this godawful mess. I think it goes back to referendum itself. For something this complex it should NOT have been a simple majority. It needed a far greater percentage of the population behind an exit for it to happen. When you've got nearly half the population prepared to sabotage the will of the other half, then chaos will prevail, as it has done. Cameron should be strung up for initiating this disaster.
Alison

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

The problem is that the UK population were never given a choice of joining the EU in the first place. By your argument, a requirement for anything more than a simple majority would mean they would be unlikely to have joined, and the people to blame include Ted Heath and every subsequent PM. That's what particularly annoys the Brexiteers I know, this isn't just a one-off of trying to ignore the people, but the culmination of 40 years of it.

[Capetonian]

Fair comment, and as a 'leaver' I understand why the remoaners are pissed off. That said, it was a legally constituted and conducted referendum, even if the sore losers disagree.

As such, the government should be bound by the expressed will of the people, even if it was only 52%. It is interesting that if some of the complacent youngsters who were sure that 'people wouldn't be stupid enough to vote leave' had turned out to vote, the result might have been different.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

The failure of the youth to turn out was typical of any national vote - they are simply making post hoc excuses for their laziness.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Given the widespread voting rebellions within both the party at large and the Cabinet, and her inability to get anything through Parliament, should we not now be referring to TM as a LINO - Leader In Name Only?
She's certainly being walked all over.

[Krystal n Chips]

Been thinking about how come we got into this godawful mess. I think it goes back to referendum itself. For something this complex it should NOT have been a simple majority. It needed a far greater percentage of the population behind an exit for it to happen. When you've got nearly half the population prepared to sabotage the will of the other half, then chaos will prevail, as it has done. Cameron should be strung up for initiating this disaster.
Alison

As has been mentioned before, Cameron lacked the moral resolve to negate those in his own party so determined to regress the UK and was equally inept in dealing with the rancid rhetoric of Farage.....plus the equally repellent right wing media spreading lies and disinformation ( please refer to the link I posted earlier in reply to Ben There ) . For a former PR specimen, he was shown to be a mere amateur by Farage.

" You missed out their ultimate 'social engineering', the Pay Freezes "

The pay freezes in the public sector were bad enough, however, the real social engineering has been the effect their policies have had on people who are vulnerable, unable to defend themselves, are reliant on benefits and State aid just to live....having a range of conditions that, through no fault of their own, render than unable to participate as fully as they wish in society. The blunt instrument for imposing these draconian policies is called the DWP, currently headed by darling Amber, when she's not logged on to her abosolute fave high end fashion web site that is.

The DWP have no concept of reality and are basically staffed by people who clearly enjoy power and bullying safe in the knowledge few will challenge their decisions. How anybody with a moral conscience could work for the DWP defies belief.

Labour have stated they intend to reverse these policies if elected and that promise alone should make them very electable. Most of you will have had no real contact with the DWP's policies so will be blissfully ignorant and / or indifferent as to how damaging they can be.

[ian16th]

The pay freeze's I was referring to were the ones that Harold Wilson forced on the honest hard working people in successful companies!

[Capetonian]

Labour have stated they intend to reverse these policies if elected and that promise alone should make them very electable

I'm afraid you must live in a fantasy world if you believe either part of that statement. I can only hope that people who might be sufficiently dim, ignorant, or misguided as to vote for Corbin, Abbott, and MacDonald are in a minority.

As for the DWP, I have had significant dealings with them for various reasons over the years and whilst in some areas they are inefficient, to say that they are basically staffed by people who clearly enjoy power and bullying safe in the knowledge few will challenge their decisions is untrue and unfair.

As for rhetoric, I find yours, and that of most of your type, rancid, as well as that of repellent left wing media spreading lies and disinformation, but it's a difference of perspective and clearly an irreconcilable difference.

You believe that socialism is the way forward, you are blinkered to the misery and poverty it causes.

[Undried Plum]

offices of state held by people with severe learning difficulties

That's not a left/right thing. it's just the way it is.

[Krystal n Chips]

Labour have stated they intend to reverse these policies if elected and that promise alone should make them very electable

As for the DWP, I have had significant dealings with them for various reasons over the years and whilst in some areas they are inefficient, to say that they are basically staffed by people who clearly enjoy power and bullying safe in the knowledge few will challenge their decisions is untrue and unfair.

I tend not to resort to fantasy when commenting on topics and hence my opinion is based on fact. When an organisation cannot understand the veracity of an affidavit to negate their own unfounded allegation, and continue to promote their fallacy as being fact, without a shred of evidence which they have been asked to produce, but can't as it doesn't exist, then my statement is both true and fair.

As for rhetoric, I find yours, and that of most of your type, rancid, as well as that of repellent left wing media spreading lies and disinformation, but it's a difference of perspective and clearly an irreconcilable difference.

Ah, it's a testimony, of sorts I suppose, that you have included the very same words I did originally. Feel free to explain the headlines in the link I mentioned ..

You believe that socialism is the way forward, you are blinkered to the misery and poverty it causes.


I am not blinkered to the misery inflicted on several million people thanks to UC ( not me or my partner I should add ) and the source of this misery.

[om15]

Labour have stated they intend to reverse these policies if elected and that promise alone should make them very electable.

Probably not by those that have been earmarked to pay for it all.
Time after time they buy votes by promising to give idle unemployed skivers money they haven't got, then when rumbled spend the next few decades denouncing the people who have been left to sort their mess out.
We do need a change in politics, no doubt about that, but winding the clock back to the 70's is no good, it doesn't work.

Having made the choice to work for a living I have no idea what the DWP is or does, but if the people who work there have to deal daily with those who choose to freeload then I can understand that they may be rather short of patience, I would be too.

[OFSO]

So May has now been told by the incompetents in Westminster to scurry back to Brussels cap-in-hand and plead for an extension to the leaving date.

Good job I'm not over there; I'd have told her to piss off. If she can't sort it out in two and a half years she never will.

[llondel]

I hope they do tell her to piss off. The best time to start sorting out the mess now will start on 30th March. At that point it'll be clear that the UK is out and needs to concentrate on setting things up properly rather than keep trying to either reverse the process or sell out for something worse than either. An extension just means they'll concentrate on trying to revoke A50 rather than properly prepare for leaving.

[Capetonian]

om15 :
The DWP is the department of Welfare and Pensions. It deals with payment of social benefits (of which I have never been a claimant nor a recipient) and state pensions.

I tend not to resort to fantasy when commenting on topics and hence my opinion is based on fact. When an organisation cannot understand the veracity of an affidavit to negate their own unfounded allegation, and continue to promote their fallacy as being fact, without a shred of evidence which they have been asked to produce, but can't as it doesn't exist, then my statement is both true and fair.

My opinions are based on my experiences, thus fact, not fantasy. I do not resort to fantasy, in any sense, when reporting experiences, but it is of course typical of you to imply that the views of others with whom you disagree are 'fantasy'.

If your attitude in dealing with people is that which comes across in your postings here, then I am not surprised that you have found them difficult to deal with.

[llondel]

Reports that the Brexit extension is likely to be the end of May...

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

It's all rubbish. There isn't enough agreement within or between any group to know what will be passed or rejected from one day to the next. Stephen Barclay was the last speaker for the Government on the delay motion just now, then voted against it, as did 7 Cabinet Ministers.
The UK is in a de facto state of anarchy.
As for the practicalities.
The EU has already said a short delay will only be considered if there is a deal agreed, and there isn't, and no hope of one in sight either. If a delay goes past May 22nd, then the UK will have to hold EU elections, which Farage's lot will probably win with a landslide. The UK's representatives in the EU Parliament will then be wholly opposed to the UK Government. A long delay means every single thing TM has ever said about Brexit will be a lie, since she still has several mechanisms for forcing the UK to leave on the 29th.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

I note Fiona Bruce on QT also asked whether TM is LINO.

[Undried Plum]

every single thing TM has ever said about Brexit will be a lie

Bugger.
Bugger Bugger.
Bugger Bugger Bugger.