BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

A place to discuss politics and things related to Govts

Do you think the UK leaving the European Union would be a good thing?

Poll ended at Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:51 pm

Yes
36
72%
No
14
28%
 
Total votes: 50

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AtomKraft
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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#2161 Post by AtomKraft » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:43 am

Krystal.
The position we are negotiating from NOW, is the weak one. In fact it could hardly be weaker.
How do you negotiate leaving terms, when you're already committed to leave? It's impossible!
The EU digs it's heels in, and what can we do? Bugger-All!

Once we leave, it will be a much more level playing field. Negotiations will not have to labour under the pressure presently being applied by the EU, which is aimed at encouraging us to stay, or to accept terms favourable to those remaining, and probably to discourage any other countries from quitting.

We are leaving. A majority voted for it and WE ALL said we'd accept the result.

Now, let's get on with it. Sooner it's over, the better.

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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#2162 Post by om15 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:06 pm

please tell us how you negotiate from a position of weakness with nothing to offer in return.
What about the 39 billion. The EU are typical lefties, living beyond their means and hoping someone else will pick up the tab.
It really was a good job socialism hadn't been invented during the era of Sir Francis Drake, instead of going out and ruling the world we would have been sat at home wringing our hands and complaining that no one was giving us enough berries to eat.

The sooner we get out of the EU, eradicate socialism in the UK for good, the sooner we can go back to being a world leader again. Before you start smirking at that, what is your plan, carry on as a minor part of a failing continental socialist experiment picking up the tab for a load of lazy Frogs?
I agree with everything AK has written, so refreshingly do the majority of those who voted in the referendum.

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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#2163 Post by Pontius Navigator » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:23 pm

"Once we leave, it will be a much more level playing field. Negotiations will not have to labour under the pressure presently being applied by the EU, which is aimed at encouraging us to stay, or to accept terms favourable to those remaining, and probably to discourage any other countries from quitting."

Once we leave it will be interesting to see how much the EU changes its stance as the lesson for others would be leave ASAP and get a better deal.

Would they remain obdurate?

Capetonian

Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#2164 Post by Capetonian » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:36 pm

Once we leave it will be interesting to see how much the EU changes its stance as the lesson for others would be leave ASAP and get a better deal.
Would they remain obdurate?
That question is becoming irrelevant. Apart from countries who are net recipients of the EU's generosity, which is better defined as redistribution of wealth, very few want to remain in it. As I have said before, redistribution of wealth is an underlying fallacy of socialism and in reality is destruction of wealth since it removes incentive to succeed. France is proof of that, but the socialists have their stupid heads in the sand so they can't see the unsustainability of the whole scheme.

The EU is a crumbling edifice, the UK is a keystone thereof, and once the UK leaves, on whatever terms, and for me it should be 'no deal', the rest will start to fall in upon itself. I am in favour of 'no deal' because despite what those with their heads in the sand want to pretend, there is never going to be a 'deal' favourable to the UK.

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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#2165 Post by probes » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:01 pm

Sorry, just got it from a friend #-o - https://imgflip.com/i/2rhg44
Attachments
Brexit jokes.jpg

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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#2166 Post by BenThere » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:38 pm

Capetonian,

You've got it absolutely right.

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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#2167 Post by llondel » Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:50 am

The EU is a crumbling edifice, the UK is a keystone thereof, and once the UK leaves, on whatever terms, and for me it should be 'no deal', the rest will start to fall in upon itself. I am in favour of 'no deal' because despite what those with their heads in the sand want to pretend, there is never going to be a 'deal' favourable to the UK.
I've always been of the opinion that the UK should have started the negotiations with "No Deal" and then offered to talk about what that broke. About the only leverage the UK has is the fishing rights, it's going to piss off a lot of French and Spanish fishermen and give the Royal Navy something to do if the net result is Keep Out.

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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#2168 Post by Slasher » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:17 am

probes wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:01 pm
https://imgflip.com/i/2rhg44
That looks like fun! :ymdevil:

But before I rush headlong into it does one's uploaded pics become the property of that website for public viewing?

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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#2169 Post by OFSO » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:10 am

One of the reasons we have moved back is that personal taxes are far less in the UK than Spain. On my pension IT is half and income from other forms of investment is tax-free in the UK but taxed in Spain. Then the cost of living is high in our part of Spain.The weekly shop in Islington is 20% cheaper than in Empuriabrava. Utilities are about 30% more expensive in Spain than in London. Before anyone challenges these statement we currently have the (for sale) property in Spain and the Islington property so can make direct comparisons. As far as medical treatment is concerned it is vital to have private insurance in Spain as waiting lists for treatment on the Spanish system are long, so we go privately in both countries.

When I moved to Spain in 1993 things were quite different: it was paradise. But governments over the years have ruined the country, which is why the young Spanish are to be found today working in Germany and the UK and why Spain has a 30% unemployment rate.

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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#2170 Post by Krystal n Chips » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:59 am

Capetonian wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:36 pm
Once we leave it will be interesting to see how much the EU changes its stance as the lesson for others would be leave ASAP and get a better deal.
Would they remain obdurate?
That question is becoming irrelevant. Apart from countries who are net recipients of the EU's generosity, which is better defined as redistribution of wealth, very few want to remain in it. As I have said before, redistribution of wealth is an underlying fallacy of socialism and in reality is destruction of wealth since it removes incentive to succeed. France is proof of that, but the socialists have their stupid heads in the sand so they can't see the unsustainability of the whole scheme.

The EU is a crumbling edifice, the UK is a keystone thereof, and once the UK leaves, on whatever terms, and for me it should be 'no deal', the rest will start to fall in upon itself. I am in favour of 'no deal' because despite what those with their heads in the sand want to pretend, there is never going to be a 'deal' favourable to the UK.
Before the quote above is shown to be nothing more than unsubstantiated fallacy, a special mention for...UKIP

UKIP has always had a magnetic allure for societies detritus ...along with your everyday racist, bigot and misogynist ....so here's a shining example of just such a member.....and the plea at the end is quite, well, moving really.......as if anybody would !

Also, in times of crisis, the Excess can always be relied on to embark on a...crusade !...( see the headlines in todays rag ) and Excess "crusades " invariably develop their own dynamic....bit like a wet lettuce leaf in a thunderstorm in fact. But, they do give aspiring Mail readers hope.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-46921529

A superb piece of contradiction from the onset, because, inconveniently I know, the UK has been a beneficiary.

But don't take the word of a dullard for this statement, instead, take a look at these links, including one from the CBI, not an organisation I can say I an generally over fond of representing as they do UK " management " but even they recognise the danger the UK faces in the very near future.

Also, as many will otherwise be deprived of reading factual commentary, the Guardian is starting a series of articles on those whose occupations involve working in the EU and thus it would a failing on my part not to offer you the opportunity to read their views.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics- ... m-36561084

http://www.cbi.org.uk/insight-and-analy ... igh-costs/

Not mentioned, as yet, is the fact the right wing saturation denunciation of immigration was also pivotal in the campaign to leave.....again, another fallacy which has been exposed for what it is......unless you are a UKIP supporter I suppose.

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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#2171 Post by Krystal n Chips » Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:08 am

Apparently I exceeded the URL limit in my post above, I wasn't aware there was a restriction, but do now.

Hence....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ade-queues

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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#2172 Post by Pontius Navigator » Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:11 am

OFSO, interesting. Should you be in hospital in Soainr, do you get the same treatment?

By that I mean as in the NHS. In the NHS you have all meals provided and an orderly will top up your water jug with potable water. Tea/coffee also brought around. I know some food can be not to one's taste but one meal I was served was superb and better than some gastro pubs, sadly I couldn't eat much.

In contrast in a private hospital in Cyprus family was expected to provide meals and drinks. I think that is true in Spain, is it not?

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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#2173 Post by om15 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:32 am

It is good to see that the Guardian, a newspaper that has attracted mild criticism on this forum in the past, has now unequivocally put its weight behind the new proposed political party, formerly a left wing paper the Guardian is now championing the formation of a new exciting political party that will transform politics in the country.
The Guardian is right to be so enthusiastic,
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... layed-ukip

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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#2174 Post by Capetonian » Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:41 am

But socialist governments over the years have ruined the country, which is why the young Spanish are to be found today working in Germany and the UK and why Spain has a 30% unemployment rate.
An important word was missing.
The 30% unemployment figure is dubious, since a lot of Spanish work on the black and claim 'el paro' although I understand that in recent years that is less common than it was when I lived and worked there.

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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#2175 Post by Krystal n Chips » Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:59 am

om15 wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:32 am
It is good to see that the Guardian, a newspaper that has attracted mild criticism on this forum in the past, has now unequivocally put its weight behind the new proposed political party, formerly a left wing paper the Guardian is now championing the formation of a new exciting political party that will transform politics in the country.
The Guardian is right to be so enthusiastic,
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... layed-ukip
Very droll, however, there is more than a glimmer of hope for you as you have admitted to reading sections on line....and now a link from the paper.

Alas, the link doesn't seem to actually reflect your thoughtful interpretation above.

However, Nige has been, as I've said, a gob without portfolio for some time now...rejection by Trump must have hurt the ego somewhat, so any opportunity that arises to once again grace our screens ( cigarette and pint optional ) would clearly be welcomed by him. Who knows, he may even refer to his own good self in glowing terms and modest praise for the lies he produced in support of leaving the EU.

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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#2176 Post by OFSO » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:01 am

I don't know where my reply has gone regarding Spanish hospitals ! To repeat, Spanish hospitals have two bed rooms as a family member is supposed to stay there and nurse you. All expats I know use a private hospital in Figueras with not-bad food and the occasional nurse who will pop in and see you. Private insurance is vital to avoid long waiting times on the Spanish NHS and this usually means you get the same facilities as the Great Unwashed but zoom past their long queues. Everyone is equal but some are more equal than others. Socialism in Practice !

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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#2177 Post by AtomKraft » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:56 pm

How about this for an idea?

Let's leave!

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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#2178 Post by Pontius Navigator » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:04 pm

OFSO, thank you. At least in the Cypriot private clinic the consultant visited 3-4 times through the day with nurses in near constant attendance. Costs were very reasonable at about £300/day.

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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#2179 Post by Woody » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:52 pm

When all else fails, read the instructions.

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Re: BREXIT - A Poll & Discussion

#2180 Post by Krystal n Chips » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:06 am

Here's a date for your diary....chaps. Monday 28th Jan to be precise.

Sadly, Dave won't be participating which is a shame as it would be "entertaining " to hear his version of events.....it seems we will all have to wait until his memoirs are published as there's a convenient clause which says "keep yer gob shut " Dave.

Anyway, the programme may be problematic for many to view in the first place as it's being broadcast by the BBC and many on here cannot access the selection button, or menu, on their remote, same as for C4 in fact, as "Faux News " is their happily bigoted permanent selection.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46951942

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