The US Hamster Wheel

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TheGreenGoblin
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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#5541 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:58 am

While it is clear that the USA has been completely outplayed by Russia in Syria and it appears that Erdogan of Turkey is also a big winner, the latter truth is not as clear cut as one might imagine...

The Turkish president’s war will likely fail because he doesn’t know what he wants.
Also, have the Turks considered the possibility that Moscow is likely to play all ends of this new phase in the Syrian conflict, drawing Turkey further into Syria and closer to Moscow? Sure, Putin looks like a constructive interlocutor for Turkey, and Erdogan is a shrewd operator who often anticipates the moves of his opponents. Yet with the U.S. withdrawal from Syria, Turkey is vulnerable to Russian manipulation, if only because Ankara will need Moscow’s goodwill in an effort to achieve Turkish aims. The harder it becomes on the Turks, the more and more they will need Putin.
All of which is just bad news for the region generally.
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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#5542 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:01 am

One suspects that the USA, whose imperial dynamic represents something akin to that of the Romans at the height of their pomp, has probably hit its apogee and its decline may be far more precipitous than that of the Romans whose Empire actually persisted for over a 1000 years. Rome probably reached its high point around 117 AD and then it finally started to decline after the rule of the truly great Emperor Trajan (in a most un-Trump like form of the word "great") as the men in short skirts armed with stabbing spears became less inclined to fight in far off distant provinces and outsourced all that dirty work to mercenaries and barbarians, which policy ultimately brought the barbarini to the gates of, and then into, Rome itself...

One of the key factors in the fall of the Roman Empire was the fact that the politicians and rulers of Rome became more and more corrupt. One doesn't have to look at the US empire and those countries that have succumbed to its hegemony, like Britain, to see the painful parallels at so many levels...

We should all look to history to see quo vadis, although I suspect the USA and the West will go south on steroids, i.e. far faster than the ultimate fate of the Roman Empire unfolded.
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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#5543 Post by Undried Plum » Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:06 am

TheGreenGoblin wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:47 am
Wasn't it the presence of US nuclear missiles in Turkey that kicked off the USSR's decision to place nuclear missiles in Cuba which kicked off that "minor" crisis back in the day?
Yes, and JFK agreed to withdraw them in exchange for withdrawal of nukes from Cuba.

As we know, The Empire is infamous for breaking its own promises.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#5544 Post by John Hill » Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:39 am

Treaties are ever only binding on the weaker party.
Been in data comm since we formed the bits individually with a Morse key.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#5545 Post by Boac » Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:05 am

It is now reckoned that Humpty has done such a 'good jab' in withdrawing US troops from Syria and allowing Turkey to ethnically cleanse the Kurds that the US will shortly have MORE military there than it had before he fell off the wall. ^#(^

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#5546 Post by Boac » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:36 pm

An armoured brigade consisting of 30 Abrams tanks would be deployed to eastern Syria. 'Bring 'em home', Humpty!

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#5547 Post by Slasher » Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:29 am

Humour break! :)



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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#5548 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:53 pm

Some suggestion that the US pullout from Syria was a deal done for the information from Turkey on where al-Baghdadi was, resulting in his reported death this morning. It would make some sense. Naturally the info has been officially attributed to Iraqi and CIA sources.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#5549 Post by boing » Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:38 pm

A possibility Fox. Idlib is close enough to the Turkish border that the Turks could quite easily have removed Al-B themselves if they had so wished so perhaps his location was used as a bargaining chip with the US to get some sort of deal. I doubt we will ever know the real story. The Turks could have supplied the info. so could many others, the Israelis, Syrian locals? AL-B must also have been a priority target of ELINT for a very long time. I wonder whether the choppers came from a US carrier or whether the Turks would allow them to fly out of Adana, what about Cyprus?

Interesting that he was with his children. Was this a family visit or was he resident? Sorta reminds you of the Bin Laden affair, comfortably living with family until somebody gave a tip. Perhaps "someone" had been watching the family hoping he would pop by to say hello at some time.

I question how strategically important the elimination of Al-B actually is, ISIS will continue on without him but their importance had already started to decline. Certainly his removal will be seen as significant by the US public whose detailed knowledge of the ME situation is lacking.

I think it is quite predictable that Trump supporters and the Hawks will call this a major victory whilst the other side will call it insignificant PR theatrics.


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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#5550 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:18 pm

boing wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:38 pm

I think it is quite predictable that Trump supporters and the Hawks will call this a major victory whilst the other side will call it insignificant PR theatrics.
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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#5551 Post by boing » Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:19 pm

the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#5552 Post by Boac » Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:22 pm

Any chance of a cut and paste, boing? I am not a 'subscriber' to the WP. :))

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#5553 Post by boing » Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:47 pm

BOAC

Try this. My wife is a suscriber so I must have been piggy-backing on here subscription.

Washington Post
Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was, as President Trump said, “a sick and depraved man,” so his removal from this earth is good news. The operation to kill him attests to the superlative skills of the U.S. Joint Special Operations Command and, yes, the U.S. intelligence community. Our intelligence officers are, as Trump said Sunday, “great” professionals, not part of a deep state out to undermine him, as he so often suggests. This operation was no more Trump’s doing than the death of Osama bin Laden was President Barack Obama’s. (Trump tweet from 2012: “Stop congratulating Obama for killing Bin Laden. The Navy Seals killed Bin Laden.”) But both men approved the risky operations and can bask in their reflected glory.

However, I have sat in too many U.S. military headquarters in Iraq and Afghanistan over the past two decades listening to Special Operations officers announce “jackpots” — the killing or capture of “high value targets” — to imagine that any such success will translate into final victory over their organizations. To be sure, some terrorist and guerrilla groups that were already on the wane have suffered severe blows from the loss of their leaders. This was the case with the Philippine insurrectos fighting U.S. rule when the rebel leader Emilio Aguinaldo was captured in 1901 and with the Shining Path in Peru when its leader Abimael Guzman was captured in 1992.

But, as I argued in my 2013 book “Invisible Armies: An Epic History of Guerrilla Warfare from Ancient Times to the Present,” “Decapitation strategies work best when a movement is weak organizationally and focused around a cult of personality. Even then leadership targeting is most effective if integrated into a broader counterinsurgency effort designed to separate the insurgents from the population. If conducted in isolation, leadership raids are about as effective as mowing the lawn; the targeted organization can usually regenerate itself.”

Trump on Baghdadi: ‘This is the biggest there is’
President Trump on Oct. 27 compared the death of Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to Osama bin Laden, who was killed in 2011.

Recent history offers numerous examples to illustrate this thesis. Abbas al-Musawi, the secretary general of Hezbollah, was killed by the Israel Defense Forces in 1992, only to be succeeded by Hasan Nasrallah, who has made this Iranian-backed organization far more powerful than ever. Abdullah Ocalan, the leader of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), was captured by Turkish forces in 1999, and yet the threat of Kurdish separatism remains so strong, at least in the mind of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, that he used it to justify his recent invasion of northern Syria. Akhtar Mohammad Mansour, the leader of the Taliban, was killed in a U.S. drone strike in 2016, but the Taliban remains undefeated.

More to the point, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq, was killed in a U.S. airstrike in 2006, and yet the security situation in Iraq continued to spiral out of control until the “surge” — a shorthand for a comprehensive counterinsurgency plan implemented in 2007 by Gen. David H. Petraeus. Even after al-Qaeda in Iraq was all but defeated, it managed to spring from the grave following the pullout of U.S. forces from Iraq in 2011. It was reconstituted as the Islamic State under the leadership of the now-deceased Baghdadi.

There is every reason to fear that Islamic State now could prove distressingly resilient despite this monster’s death. This summer, inspectors general from the Defense and State departments and the U.S. Agency for International Development warned that Islamic State retained as many as 18,000 fighters in Syria and Iraq and was starting to stage a comeback. That resurgence is likely to be accelerated by Trump’s ill-advised pullout from northern Syria, which ends a partnership with the Kurds that, among other benefits, provided intelligence that contributed to the track-down of Baghdadi. Trump is now dismantling the infrastructure that made this success possible.

Defense Secretary Mark T. Esper admitted that more than 100 Islamic State detainees have already escaped — and there is no evidence to back up Trump’s boast that they have been “largely recaptured.” Terrorist organizations flourish in a lawless environment, and the end of the U.S. partnership with the Kurds will contribute to the chaos in eastern Syria, despite Trump’s puzzling decision to secure Syria’s tiny oil fields. Turkish and Russian forces have neither the capability nor incentive to take over the U.S. counterterrorism mission. Indeed, Turkey looked the other way for years as foreign jihadists transited its territory to join Islamic State in Syria.

What’s true of Syria is true of other battlefields in the global war against terrorism. A report from the Center for Strategic and International Studies last year found: “Despite nearly two decades of U.S.-led counterterrorism operations, there are nearly four times as many Sunni Islamic militants today as there were on September 11, 2001. … The regions with the largest number of fighters are Syria (between 43,650 and 70,550 fighters), Afghanistan (between 27,000 and 64,060), Paki­stan (between 17,900 and 39,540), Iraq (between 10,000 and 15,000), Nigeria (between 3,450 and 6,900), and Somalia (between 3,095 and 7,240).”
Mapping out Turkey's invasion of northern Syria
Here's where chaos unfolded in northern Syria as Turkey launched an invasion following President Trump's Oct. 6 decision to withdraw U.S. troops from the area.

The only way to permanently defeat terrorist organizations is to foster stability in the lands where they operate — the last thing that Trump, an agent of instability, is interested in. By removing most U.S. troops from Syria, and soon perhaps Afghanistan, he is likely to hand a victory to the terrorists that will far outweigh the transitory effects of Baghdadi’s demise.
AD
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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#5554 Post by Boac » Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:29 pm

Thanks, boing - no doubt Humpty will have long forgotten his 2012 words

“Stop congratulating Obama for killing Bin Laden. The Navy Seals killed Bin Laden.”

and

"American military officials have said the operation that resulted in the killing of Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi succeeded not thanks to US President Donald Trump, but despite his actions, a report said Sunday.

Trump took credit for the success of the daring Saturday nighttime raid by US special forces deep in northwest Syria, claiming in a press conference Sunday that Baghdadi had died “like a dog” and that the achievement was bigger than the killing of 9/11 mastermind Osama bin Laden during the Obama administration.

According to The New York Times, however, the raid had been planned for months, but Trump’s recent decision to pull US troops from northern Syria “disrupted the meticulous planning and forced Pentagon officials to press ahead with a risky, night raid before their ability to control troops and spies and reconnaissance aircraft disappeared.”

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#5555 Post by boing » Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:16 pm

According to The New York Times, however, the raid had been planned for months, but Trump’s recent decision to pull US troops from northern Syria “disrupted the meticulous planning and forced Pentagon officials to press ahead with a risky, night raid before their ability to control troops and spies and reconnaissance aircraft disappeared.”
So, the Turks were probably not behind it but who knows the truth. "According to the New York Times". They have been known to publish tips without verification previously.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#5556 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:18 pm

WP appears to show stories if you use Incognito mode in Chrome (or the equivalent in other browsers), as do many other newspapers. Worth a go.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#5557 Post by AtomKraft » Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:07 pm

Declare Victory!

And leave.....

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#5558 Post by Karearea » Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:26 pm

Fox3WheresMyBanana wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:19 pm
Bridge collapse in Miami today, at least 8 vehicles under it.
Just been erected and not yet opened to traffic.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida-in ... e-updates/

Both the construction company and the management company have had a new bridge collapse in the last 5 years, apparently.
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/fiu-b ... s-10176596

One hesitates to make a call before all the facts are in.
This video recently posted to YT by NTSBgov:

There's rosemary, that's for remembrance. ...

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#5559 Post by Boac » Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:18 am

Lock him up!

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#5560 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:29 pm

It seems old "Generalissimo BS" (BS for bone spurs or the more smelly stuff) may have been exaggerating (or lying) in his account of what exactly happened at the Baghdadi compound!

Quelle surprise!
Footage of the US special forces raid on Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi’s Syrian compound reportedly consisted of overhead surveillance footage and no audio, prompting questions over the extent of the dramatic licence taken by Donald Trump in describing the final moments of one of the most wanted terrorists in the world.
US officials who also watched the feed have declined to echo details of Trump’s macabre account of the Isis’s leader death on Saturday, including that Baghdadi was “whimpering, crying and screaming all the way”...

The White House monitored the Syria operation through video feeds that Trump said was “as though you were watching a movie”.

The footage piped into the situation room would have consisted of overhead surveillance shots of the dark compound with heat signatures differentiating between US fighters and others, intelligence and military officials told the New York Times.

Those cameras would not have been able to peer into the tunnel where Baghdadi died, nor provide audio proof of his conduct during the last minutes of his life.
More manure from Trump
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Your destination remains
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