The US Hamster Wheel

[brickhistory]

You shouldn't need to Google, it, Seen.

You should know it. Just like we Brits know when the Second World War was declared, and by whom.

We also know when it was ended, and by whom. (Hint: it wasn't John Wayne or Carey Grant)

I suspect the Czechs may have a different memory of history and when the war in Europe started.

[Undried Plum]

Nobody declared war when Sudetenland was restored to Germany. Nobody.

Certainly not the Septics. Not even the Brits.

My godfather, a very dear friend of my grandfather, was a Czech. He spent several years in a Gestapo prison cell. His education of me helped me greatly in my half-year in prison in Audi-Sarabia. He wrote a book about it. I did not.

[Seenenough]

It ended in Europe when the Soviets reached Berlin, they were in the war too you know.

The Germans surrendered and handed themselves to the Allies first because they knew if they surrendered to Stalin things would have been way more unpleasant and not have ended well for them.

[Undried Plum]

It was the Russians (Soviets) who did the hard hard slog.

They won the war.

[Seenenough]

It was the Russians (Soviets) who did the hard hard slog.

They won the war.

There is no doubt ,as the earlier video shows, that the country that lost the most number of lives during WW2 was Russia,but then we also now know that under Stalin his own soldiers were treated like cannon fodder which he threw at the Germans quicker than they could be killed.

It remains a fact that the Germans surrendered to the Allied Forces first.

[Seenenough]

Nobody declared war when Sudetenland was restored to Germany. Nobody.

Certainly not the Septics. Not even the Brits.

My godfather, a very dear friend of my grandfather, was a Czech. He spent several years in a Gestapo prison cell. His education of me helped me greatly in my half-year in prison in Audi-Sarabia. He wrote a book about it. I did not.

Why did you end up in prison Plum?

[John Hill]

It remains a fact that the Germans surrendered to the Allied Forces first.

Are you sure about that? The Battle of Berlin ended on 2 May. On that date, General der Artillerie Helmuth Weidling, the commander of the Berlin Defense Area, unconditionally surrendered the city to General Vasily Chuikov of the Red Army.


I guess there are facts and there are alternative facts, at least something we can thank Trump for.

[Seenenough]

The Battle of Berlin ended on 2 May.-yes it was only the Battle of the City of Berlin.

The German surrender to the Allies was signed by General Alfred Jodl and was witnessed by Russian General Ivan Susloparov and French General Francois Sevez, and General Walter Bedell Smith, Ike’s chief of staff, signed for the Allied Expeditionary Force.

But there was still a twist. Since General Susloparov did not have explicit permission from Soviet Premier Stalin to sign the surrender papers, even as a witness, he was quickly hustled back East and into the hands of the Soviet secret police.

[TheGreenGoblin]

Nobody declared war when Sudetenland was restored to Germany. Nobody.

My godfather, a very dear friend of my grandfather, was a Czech. He spent several years in a Gestapo prison cell. His education of me helped me greatly in my half-year in prison in Audi-Sarabia. He wrote a book about it. I did not.

The key dates in conflicts such as World War 2 are often expressed through the prism of our cultures and national experiences thereof. Ask most Chinese people when the war started and they will say the war began with the commencement of the Second Sino-Japanese War between Republic of China and the Empire of Japan on July 7, 1937, with the Marco Polo Bridge Incident. Personally I have a great deal of sympathy with that view.

With reference to Undried Plum's grandfather's friend's travails with the Gestapo in a Czech cell, it may of interest to our South African, would be USA citizen, aka Seenenough, to learn of the travails of one Hugh William Arthur Oloff De Wet, scion of the famous South African De Wet family, once putative grandson
of General Christiaan De Wet but definitely son of Thomas Oloff De Wet who had become an officer in the Royal Navy. Hugh De Wet was born in the Channel Islands and was a British citizen.

Hugh Oloff De Wet is a fascinating and contrary character whose biography is well worth a film, his career encompassing the RAF, flying as a mercenary in Ethiopia, disgrace, alcoholism, participation in the Spanish Civil, exile in France where he worked for the French intelligence services who posted him to Czechoslovakia where he married a beautiful Russian woman, Alla Fyodorovna, who worked with him as a British agent after the fall of France to the Germans. He and, then, later, his wife were captured by the Gestapo in Czechoslovakia after they were betrayed. De Wet was severely tortured, all his fingers being broken and him being threatened with the torture of his wife in front of him if he did not reveal the details of other agents in their operation which was now being run by the British. So bad were the conditions that they endured that Alla, committed suicide in prison precipitating a hunger strike by De Wet who managed to escape, was recaptured and was told he was to be executed, only for this to be delayed as, as he listened to the daily hangings of other prisoners outside his cell window. This continued for two and half years until he was released to the Russians when they swept into Czechoslovakia and he managed to escape, thereafter, to the American lines, who rearrested him, eventually releasing him after his story checked out. It was only later he learned that his execution and death had been forestalled by the British threatening to hang a German agent if he was hanged.

Eventually he made it London, where he suffered in grim grey austerity London and survived as a painter and sculptor, later becoming engaged to Sarah Churchill and becoming famous enough in his own right as an artist to be appear on This Is Your Life in 1956.

I assume the book by De Wet you refer to there is by the same Oloff De Wett Undried Plum.

The South African De Wet's and Hugh Oloff

You will notice that I used the word putative grandson of the esteemed General Christian De Wett...

It refers to the memoirs of Mr. Donald Sole who during World War II, was a junior diplomat in the South African High Commissioner's office in London. He at some point received a call from the U.S. Embassy in London as advised by their counterpart in Berlin (the U.S. was still neutral) that a certain Justus de Wet was arrested by the Germans as a French spy and that he was condemned to death. Mr. Sole was not aware of such a person, but he decided to try to save his life by claiming that this person was related to the famous General Christiaan de Wet and should he be executed, it could alienate pro-German Afrikaners.

I first became aware of Hugo De Wett in the 1980's through Donald Sole's, who was then South African Ambassador in the USA, son, Sam, who was a friend at UCT. Sam Sole, has of course, gone on to become famous, in his own right, for his courage as a journalist in contemporary South Africa.

[barkingmad]

If I may drag the thread away from variations of accounts of WW2 and fast forwards to more recent times when the World has benefitted from US generosity and looks likely to be treated to more of the same?

Here are 2 excellent books on the topic of the benevolent Uncle Sam, the one with the passport, who’s travelling the globe dispensing peace, cupcakes and mom’s apple pie. And he is still intent on continuing this task for the sake of hegemony for his country.

https://williamblum.org/books/rogue-state Is a long hard look at what Uncle Sam has been up to since WW2 and the effects on far too many countries including the UK.

https://williamblum.org/books/americas-deadliest-export Is a long hard look at more recent times and bodes I’ll for the future of peace if trends continue at the current bewildering rate and the current unpredictable directions.

Unfortunately I doubt if either of these volumes will be found in the classrooms of the schools currently teaching some form of history in the US, but I’d be delighted to be proven wrong on that score.

I don’t assume for one moment that O-N members are going to promptly rush off and buy or borrow these tomes but a reading of the index to each book as depicted in the links should give a pretty good idea of the coverage and remind us all what the world’s self-appointed policeman has been up to these past few decades.

[TheGreenGoblin]

https://williamblum.org/books/rogue-state Is a long hard look at what Uncle Sam has been up to since WW2 and the effects on far too many countries including the UK.

https://williamblum.org/books/americas-deadliest-export Is a long hard look at more recent times and bodes I’ll for the future of peace if trends continue at the current bewildering rate and the current unpredictable directions.

Unfortunately I doubt if either of these volumes will be found in the classrooms of the schools currently teaching some form of history in the US, but I’d be delighted to be proven wrong on that score.

I don’t assume for one moment that O-N members are going to promptly rush off and buy or borrow these tomes but a reading of the index to each book as depicted in the links should give a pretty good idea of the coverage and remind us all what the world’s self-appointed policeman has been up to these past few decades.

Why not? Just looking at doing that right now. Thanks for the links.

[TheGreenGoblin]

Meanwhile back in the State of New Jersey, they are looking for retired COBOL programmers to fix their unemployment system...

COBOL PROGRAMMERS NEEDED

[TheGreenGoblin]

Nobody declared war when Sudetenland was restored to Germany. Nobody.

My godfather, a very dear friend of my grandfather, was a Czech. He spent several years in a Gestapo prison cell. His education of me helped me greatly in my half-year in prison in Audi-Sarabia. He wrote a book about it. I did not.

With reference to Undried Plum's father's friend's travails

Conflated godfather and father mangled the message...

[G-CPTN]

It was the Russians who thrashed the Germans.
More than 80% of the German war effort was directed against the Russians (Soviets).

Indeed - something that I wasn't aware of until I went to Dresden and studied the 'memorials'.

[TheGreenGoblin]

It was the Russians who thrashed the Germans.
More than 80% of the German war effort was directed against the Russians (Soviets).

Indeed - something that I wasn't aware of until I went to Dresden and studied the 'memorials'.

Absolutely and the Russians suffered horrendous losses in defeating the Nazi's. If any one nation can be said to have primacy in the defeat of the Nazi's it was the Russians...

See here.. https://www.ops-normal.org/viewtopic.ph ... 18#p227218

[Undried Plum]

I assume the book by De Wet you refer to there is by the same Oloff De Wett Undried Plum.

Yes, that's Hugh, my godfather. A remarkable man who taught me a lot about a lot of things.

[Undried Plum]

I assume the book by De Wet you refer to there is by the same Oloff De Wett Undried Plum.

Yes, that's Hugh, my godfather. A remarkable man who taught me a lot about a lot of things.

I never called him Oloff, only Hugh.

[TheGreenGoblin]

I assume the book by De Wet you refer to there is by the same Oloff De Wett Undried Plum.

Yes, that's Hugh, my godfather. A remarkable man who taught me a lot about a lot of things.

I thought it might be... the story of his abortive flying career in Africa, including the proposed duel with a Belgian Officer (if I remember correctly) and his adventures as a pilot in Spain are legendary

https://www.bigredbook.info/hugh_oloff_de_wet.html

[barkingmad]

If an election has only one runner, can it be called a contest? This bodes ill for the shenanigans leading up to November this year;



And we thought Chump’s utterances were laced with non-sequiturs?

[Woody]

Who would believe it in Texas

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... tonio.html