The US Hamster Wheel

[Boac]

Post 3:
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=4172&p=259546#p259546

E&OE of course.

[boing]

Thread drift is unfortunate but often relevant.

Law and order, race and firearms ownership are important considerations in any American election or law making process.

It is most likely that BLM will influence many votes.

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[nomorecatering]

So, Boing. I get the feeling that you took it personally, since you felt the need to defend the honor of right wing extremists. Strange hill to choose to die on. It sort of makes me question your assertion that you are not one of them.

Nevertheless, despite your claim that you can only be a threat if you haven't done anything - which has to be the dumbest reasoning I've seen in a long time - The Department of Homeland Security in their annual threat assessment clearly shows that right wing extremists are responsible for most deaths by far. The Secretary of DHS writes "I am particularly concerned about white supremacist violent extremists who have been exceptionally lethal in their abhorrent, targeted attacks in recent years". The assessment goes on "Among DVEs, racially and ethnically motivated violent extremists—specifically white supremacist extremists (WSEs)—will remain the most persistent and lethal threat in the Homeland".

DHS Assessment 2020.jpg (17.08 KiB) Viewed 746 times

Domestic Violent Extremists (DVEs)
Foreign terrorist-inspired Homegrown Violent Extremists (HVEs)
White supremacist extremists (WSEs)

"WSEs have demonstrated longstanding intent to target racial and religious minorities, members of the LGBTQ+ community, politicians, and those they believe promote multi-culturalism and globalization at the expense of the WSE identity. Since 2018, they have conducted more lethal attacks in the United States than any other DVE movement." https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files ... ssment.pdf

You are probably not interested, but the graph below show data from the last 25 years.

Funny that you think Portland is the United States. But I'm happy that you've opened up for lumping everyone you don't like together. I'll be using that.

[nomorecatering]

IMHO, right wing extremism is usually a reaction to the masses of left wing extremism.

Normal people, sick of the never-ending torrent of leftyism are eventually forced to cry 'enough!'.

That's great, Atomkraft. The they-made-me-do-it defense. Must be a legitimate excuse for the lefties too. Or what?

[nomorecatering]

Surely the ethnicity of who shoots who is irrelevant? Just tell us the reason for the shooting, and enough detail as to ascertain if it was justified.

The ethnicity of who was shot was relevant to you, as you made sure to mention it. Just as you made sure to mention "black on black". I haven't seen you mention "white on white". Why is that?

And yes, if you're white you don't have to be "intelligent" or "docile" to not be shot and killed.

[prospector]

" o defend the honor of right wing extremists"

Straight into identity politics, anyone who you disagree with is a right wing extremist

" The ethnicity of who was shot was relevant to you, as you made sure to mention it" If you had of read my post properly, and inwardly digested it, my point was why do the news reports have to mention ethnicity?

" Just as you made sure to mention "black on black". I haven't seen you mention "white on white". Why is that?" Because the numbers, in the context of the statement, do not justify stating that.
" And yes, if you're white you don't have to be "intelligent" or "docile" to not be shot and killed."\
That was asked as a question. not made as a statement. The numbers involved are very different.
The two video"s you posted are obviously mentally deranged people, there would appear no way that behaviour could be classed as rational.

[boing]

NMC

I'm finding interesting things about what DHS considers to be terrorism. See you shortly.

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[TheGreenGoblin]

NMC

I'm finding interesting things about what DHS considers to be terrorism. See you shortly.

.

What absolute **** crap you talk... FFS

[PHXPhlyer]

If you can'i freeze 'em. fry 'em!
I know. Its not the heat, its the humidity.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-e ... l-n1245397

Heat at Trump rally sends a dozen attendees to the hospital
Officials at the Trump rally in Tampa, Florida, said a total of 17 people needed medical attention

Oct. 29, 2020, 3:01 PM MST / Updated Oct. 29, 2020, 5:00 PM MST
By Dareh Gregorian
A crowded Trump rally in steamy Tampa, Florida, on Thursday resulted in 17 attendees needing medical attention, with a dozen being taken to the hospital, fire officials told NBC News.

Trump spoke for just under an hour in 87-degree heat at the event outside of Raymond James Stadium to a largely mask-less group of supporters.

A fire truck at the rear of the rally sprayed water in the air to rain down on some rallygoers, but the heat was too much for some attendees, many of whom had been waiting for hours. Tampa Fire Rescue said one of the attendees fainted and another had a seizure. The other 10 who were taken to the hospital were just listed as "sick" with no other details.

The incident came two days after 30 rallygoers in Omaha, Nebraska, needed medical attention after transportation issues resulted in hundreds of attendees being stuck for hours in the freezing cold. Officials said seven were taken to area hospitals with a variety of ailments.

The temperature in the area was in the mid-30s at the time but as low as 27 degrees with wind chill.

The Trump campaign blamed the delay on "local road closures" that held up their shuttle buses.

"We always strive to provide the best guest experience at our events and we care about their safety," the campaign said Wednesday.
2020 ELECTION
In dueling Florida rallies, Trump and Biden paint different pictures of Covid — and America
The weather impacted another Trump rally planned for North Carolina later on Thursday, which was called off because of high winds.

"Very bad weather, the wind was terrible. We were forced to do it for safety reasons," Trump told NBC's Kelly O'Donnell during a stop at Fort Bragg. "We're re-doing it on Monday."

Trump rival Joe Biden held a drive-in rally with close to 300 cars in Tampa later in the day, and wrapped up his speech early after it started to rain.

"I'm going to shorten this for you all," Biden told the crowd. "Get out of the rain!"

PP

[prospector]

This article is a glimpse into "Unbiased" media that rules in today's America And for those who do not peruse R.T. https://www.foxnews.com/media/glenn-gre ... ored-story

https://www.rt.com/news/504967-greenwal ... aign=Email

HomeWorld News
Glenn Greenwald, who helped publish Snowden revelations, RESIGNS from outlet he founded after editors censor his Biden reporting
29 Oct, 2020 19:36 / Updated 7 hours ago
Get short URL
Glenn Greenwald, who helped publish Snowden revelations, RESIGNS from outlet he founded after editors censor his Biden reporting
The Intercept co-founder Glenn Greenwald (June 25, 2019 file photo). © REUTERS/Adriano Machado
345
Follow RT onRT
Resigning from the Intercept, Glenn Greenwald cited as the last straw the decision of “authoritarian, fear-driven, repressive” editors in New York to suppress his article critical of Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden.
Greenwald co-founded the outlet in 2014, with Laura Poitras and Jeremy Scahill, in part as a vehicle to publish the revelations from NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden. Editorial freedom was supposed to be the Intercept’s core mission, he explained in a letter of resignation posted on Thursday.

The publication “now bears absolutely no resemblance to what we set out to build – not in content, structure, editorial mission or purpose,” Greenwald wrote.



Instead, it is “rapidly becoming just another media outlet with mandated ideological and partisan loyalties, a rigid and narrow range of permitted viewpoints (ranging from establishment liberalism to soft leftism, but always anchored in ultimate support for the Democratic Party), a deep fear of offending hegemonic cultural liberalism and center-left Twitter luminaries, and an overarching need to secure the approval and admiration of the very mainstream media outlets we created The Intercept to oppose, critique and subvert,” Greenwald wrote in a Substack post explaining his decision to leave.

[boing]

GG

Nothing like doing a little research I say.

Some interesting things you find. For example I always sort of thought that terrorists had to kill people but that is not so it only needs to be "acts dangerous to human life" if they “appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping.”.

That's a pretty broad brush if you have a lot of paint to spread around. The first thing that strikes me is that BLM riots are actually acts of terrorism because their fire-bombings are acts dangerous to human life and they trigger all the of the other clauses. Why are the rioters not being arrested and accused of terrorism as opposed to the lesser charge of interfering with a police officer? Perhaps we have a flexible definition of terrorism that lets us say some fire-bombings are terrorism but performed for the right cause they are not?

Here is an interesting one which is included in the terrorism count.

Cesar Sayoc, the Florida bodybuilder and nightclub bouncer who mailed inoperative pipe bombs to prominent Democrats and media figures seen as critical of President Trump, was sentenced to 20 years in prison by a federal judge in New York on Monday

None of Sayoc's devices exploded. At his sentencing hearing Monday, Sayoc said that although his homemade devices looked like pipe bombs, he did not intend for them to explode.

Rakoff (The Judge) concluded that the design flaws in Sayoc's bombs were intentional and indicated that he did not intend to actually harm his victims.

So how can mailing deliberately non-functional pipe-bombs be considered as "acts dangerous to human life". I suppose you could say the mail carriers were in danger but they were not personally being intimidated or coerced. It cost this fellow 20 years inside regardless, he will be 76 when he is released.

https://time.com/4136457/terrorism-definition/

The Federal Bureau of Investigation uses a definition of terrorism that tracks with the Patriot Act. “Terrorism” encompasses “acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law” and “appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping.” It distinguishes between international terrorism (acts occurring abroad) and domestic terrorism, which occurs primarily within the U.S.

[Pontius Navigator]

" Is the death penalty for being in possession of a knife now carried out without the niceties of a trial by jury and all that old-fashioned stuff?"

No it is not. Having an obviously mentally deranged individual in possession and theatening to kill approaching you puts a different spin on the situation would you not say?

Oh please, was it necessary to fire so many shots? Was their aim so bad that they missed? The question asked was why not taser?

[boing]

PN

A taser is normally a contact weapon. If used at non-contact range you only have one shot, it can only be used at very close range and it is not very accurate. Miss and you get knifed.

Similarly with a firearm. Despite what the movies show it is very difficult to hit a critical part on a body coming at you at a run, the whole body is in rapid motion, it is not a paper target placed a fixed distance ahead of you that does not move. Second, even if you hit the target you do not know that because, unlike a paper target, you do not see the bullet hole appear. The attacker will not collapse to the ground as you might expect since the inertia of the attack will still carry him towards you. You really have no idea of how effective your fire may be so, to be sure, you just keep firing until you see an effective result. Most police officers never fire their pistol in anger in their careers so you can perhaps understand they can get a little excited when it actually happens to them.

It's like pilots and engine failures on take-off, you will likely never experience one but if it does happen, despite numerous training experiences, it is going to get your attention.

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[boing]

NoMoreCatering

A boring continuation but I did warn I would do it so I feel obliged to follow up.

I have been investigating the facts behind the DHS report you supplied but unfortunately the link to the report no longer seems to be active. I have tried to find an archived version of the report from other sources but all I can find are brief summaries not the original document. If you can find a version of the original document please provide a link.

It appears the document published is now being referred to as a "third draft" of a final report and it may have been withdrawn since it was exposed prematurely apparently through the Politico news organisation which led to exposure in the general media.

One concern about the report is the lumping together of certain groups under one statistical category, namely White Supremacists, Extreme Right Wingers (often subsequently, to my annoyance, dropping the word "Extreme") and racists. Although there are undoubtedly some cases where the groups may have a connection there is no logical reason why they should be grouped together for statistical purposes. Racists can be of any creed or colour, they do not have to be White Supremacists and they do not need to be Right Wing, vide extreme BLM. An "Extreme" Right Winger does not have to be white, there are right wing asiatics and latinos, in fact this is quite common, etc. etc. Lumping disparate groups together skews the statistics, for example, 22 of the deaths recorded where caused by a mentally deranged person with no obvious racist, supremacist or right wing leanings at all.

This brings me to my second concern which is the inclusion in the statistics of mentally deranged individuals, OK some would say all Right Wingers are de facto deranged but joking aside, should genuinely mentally deranged people who have expressed racist or other views be categorised by their deranged ramblings or do they belong in their own category? It is not unusual for deranged people to develop bizarre beliefs and to a small number of the group these can easily be of a racist nature but should those deluded opinions be used to categorise them alongside the genuine article?

In any case, it seems the report may have been withdrawn for further editing, we shall see. If you do find the original please provide a link, my problem may simply be temporary although it has been present since Friday morning.

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[boing]

NMC

Cancel my link request.The site popped up on my desktop which is odd because my GP laptop will still not access it.

[Bob]

(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping.”.

Describes the Far rights M.O. almost perfectly ... (Open Carry at voting boxes anyone?)

[boing]

Bob,
It will be interesting to see the next DHS report. The present one covers 2018/2019 but they did mention events that took place in 2020 including our local riots in Portland. The DHS reports that 300 law enforcement officers have been injured in these riots describing them as acts of domestic terrorism. It will be interesting to see how the DHS accounts for these events in the 2020 report because every single, every single, one of these law enforcement injuries was caused by BLM associated rioters, often young white persons.

Will the DHS create another category recognising that there is a left wing counterpart, the Left Wing Extremists, to the Right Wing Extremists? Will the DHS create a category of BSW (Black Supremacist Whites) or will they be described simply as BS (Black Supremacists to counter balance the White Supremacists)? I suspect that in a year these riots will be swept under the table or blamed on White Supremacists who caused them by simply existing. By the way, this is not support for White Supremacy merely an attempt to factually balance a distorted viewpoint being supplied to the public that white left wing violence does not exist.

(Unfortunately I still can't download the relevant part of the report on this computer)

Here is an interesting comment from a police officer involved in the riots. Jackson is black as you might suspect.

Portland police officer Jakhary Jackson took Black Lives Matter protesters to task last week, calling them hypocritical for having fewer minorities in their “violent” crowd than the police officers they’re supposedly fighting against.
The comments from Jackson appeared on a recorded interview that was released by the Portland Police Department on Wednesday.
“It says something when you’re at a Black Lives Matter protest, you have more minorities on the police side than you have in a violent crowd and you have white people screaming at black officers: ‘You have the biggest nose I’ve ever seen,” Jackson said.

Yes, white violent extremist do most certainly exist as shown by video of the riots in various US cities but unfortunately for the script that the media is trying to create these are Left Wing Extremists. Let us see whether the Left Wing Extremists, who are actually carry out documented violence in real time, get equal criticism to the Right Wing supporters who are actually blamed for causing much of the violence.

At present in Portland Oregon the score is that Left Wing Extremist have carried out 120 days of urban riot and the Right Wing Extremists have held one large barbecue party in a park.

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[nomorecatering]

The DHS reports that 300 law enforcement officers have been injured in these riots describing them as acts of domestic terrorism.

The DHS Threat Assessment does no such thing. You are making stuff up now.

every single, every single, one of these law enforcement injuries was caused by BLM associated rioters, often young white persons.

You have no idea if that is the case or not. You are making stuff up again.

Will the DHS create another category recognising that there is a left wing counterpart, the Left Wing Extremists, to the Right Wing Extremists?

The DHS has no category called Right WIng Extremists. There is no mention of left wing or right wing in the DHS Threat Assessment. You are making up more stuff.

What remain is that right wing extremists kill far more people in the US than any other type of extremist. You can twist and turn, explain away, make stuff up and create as many strawmen as you like. It is a fact you appear unable and unwilling to acknowledge.

[boing]

NMC,

Suggest you go back to the original report to which you provided the link. This is directly copied.

Operational reporting shows that DHS law enforcement officers suffered over 300 separate injuries while they were present during months of nightly unrest in Portland, Oregon. This is but one example among many across the country, including in Brooklyn, New York, and Kenosha, Wisconsin, where law enforcement officers have been injured or killed. These increasingly pervasive incidents highlight the threat of anarchist violence that has accelerated in our cities in recent months.

-----------------------------------------------------------

every single, every single, one of these law enforcement injuries was caused by BLM associated rioters, often young white persons.

You have no idea if that is the case or not. You are making stuff up again.

No, I have been watching the situation closely including watching live feed videos as the riots were taking place, we have a daughter living down town. I reckon since I am 12 miles from the action and you are on the other end of a newspaper I have better information than you do. The police themselves have a good relationship with the Right Wing groups based on the fact that they are never attacked by Right Wing groups who strongly support law and order.

As the far-right crowd left downtown Portland, Toese walked past several Portland police officers who did not attempt to apprehend him.

“Each skirmish appeared to involve willing participants and the events were not enduring in time, so officers were not deployed to intervene,” the Portland Police Bureau said in a statement.

------------------------------------------------------------

The DHS has no category called Right WIng Extremists. There is no mention of left wing or right wing in the DHS Threat Assessment. You are making up more stuff.

Once again go back to the original document you linked. Just who do you think this classification applies to, they dare not say "Right Wing Extremists" because that would be too divisive.

9 Homegrown White Supremist Extremist (WSE):
A group or individual who facilitates or engages in acts of unlawful violence directed at the federal government, ethnic minorities, or Jewish persons in support of their belief that Caucasians are intellectually and morally superior to other races and/or their perception that the government is controlled by Jewish persons.

------------------------------------------------------------

What remain is that right wing extremists kill far more people in the US than any other type of extremist.

What you do not understand is that those statistics you quote are incorrect according to the DHS's own definition. I tried to find the events behind the statistics and it is not available on the DHS website in association with this report. I did find FBI statistics that do generally seem to be the basis of the DHS numbers. I then investigated every event that the FBI reported, what happened and the legal determination reached. In 2018/2019 the FBI reported 11 events causing 32 deaths which reached the FBI definition of terrorism, the DHS claims 15 events took place resulting in 38 deaths. I cannot find the reason for the discrepancy. What was clear is that based on the numbers the DHS report must contain the data from the FBI report otherwise the numbers would not match at all closely. This leads me to the Parkland High School deaths in February 2018. This event, which involved 17 deaths is clearly added to the DHS count or the number of reported deaths would not reach the amount of 38. Reading the reports on this event reveals absolutely no connection with racism or political influence. The killings were carried out by a 19 year old student who had threatened violence on several occasions, the school was even warned immediately before the event that the student was unstable and planning an attack. These warnings were ignored and 17 people died but there is absolutely no suggestion that the event was connected with any political agenda or racial position. Yet the event is recorded in the DHS report as an SWE attack. Removing this event from the total would reduce the DHS claim for deaths to 21, still not a pretty figure but less than the claimed 38. The number of deaths claimed is almost cut in half.

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[boing]

This should have been put in "You Can't Make This Up" but because the story is distinctly American I will put it here for your amusement.

Our area has been invaded by urbanites, many of them from other states, who have purchased property so that they can "move into the country", at least by their definition. In the area we still have some pretty stiff rural building requirements such as a minimum lot size for a single family home being two acres (not many), 20 acres (normal) and some as much as forty acres .

It seems that these people cannot survive without some sort of homeowner's network so they created a community magazine, not really needed in the old community since people just drove to other peoples homes to borrow a tool and cadge a beer and share the news. Of course, the magazine has to have a section on how to deal with emergencies, you see these people want to be prepared like survivalists but they won't use that expression since they think that it should only be applied to the original hill-billies.

Here is the latest gem:

Think Emergency Toilet.

Now that you have stored 14-days of water for your household as part of your disaster preparedness, next it is time to think toilet. If disaster strikes and plumbing no longer works, you will need a toilet system that is usable, but does not pollute the area and contaminate water sources. There are a number of systems. We like the Twin Bucket Emergency Toilet system, a system that was used by many New Zealand apartment dwellers for months after the 2011 earthquake.

Since the home is sitting on a rural 20 acre lot I am sure that many of you, like me, in emergency, can think of a much, faster, cheaper and more convenient way to go to the toilet than purchasing a device designed for apartment dwellers. It would appear that these people do not think that the wildlife that they try to feed like pets may actually, post prandium, head off into the woods and do their thing. I hope these people do not learn of this habit or we may see deer and bear wearing nappies and checking in for a nappy change as required.

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