The US Hamster Wheel

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BenThere
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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#4741 Post by BenThere » Sun May 12, 2019 1:03 am

Actually I earned a triple major, a degree in Finance, Economics and Marketing. My MBA was Management with an emphasis on Economics. I ultimately figured out that what I really wanted to do was fly so I ended up and retired as an airline pilot while maintaining a abiding interest in the disciplines I studied in college.

As for tariffs, they are inherently protective of the domestic industries that benefit from them. The US originally allowed countries to impose them, like Japan, so as to help them recover from WWII. President Trump has sought no more than equality in trade relations, specifically promoting a doctrine that advocates mutually tariff-free trade.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#4742 Post by Boac » Sun May 12, 2019 7:16 am

Oh dear, Ben - unable to answer a question? What a waste of a 'degree'.

It seems that there is a serious outbreak of the 'Emperor's New Clothes' in the US - I assume the Chump also campaigned against the 'UDUMASS' vaccine and the US is now suffering from the outbreak. Don't miss the 'George Clooney' sequence he did (from MarketWatch - https://www.marketwatch.com/story/two-t ... 2019-05-08)

So, here is another chance to prove that American degrees and MBAs are actually worth something and not just pieces of bought paper.

The question for the Economics 'master' is - is this correct?
"Tariffs are NOW being paid to the United States by China of 25% on 250 Billion Dollars worth of goods & products. These massive payments go directly to the Treasury of the U.S....."

I appreciate it is a hard question for someone as qualified as you! Let me, with my DEGREE (yes, I got wun 2!) answer your earlier question directly
"In that light, what qualifies you to call me ignorant in the discussion of Economics?"

The answer is evident here. You have answered it yourself. Was your 'MBA' actually in Bullsh!t?

I hear that both you and the Chump are highly intelligent, but perhaps it would be easier for you if you could just explain WHY you cannot answer the question?

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#4743 Post by Boac » Sun May 12, 2019 7:39 pm

REVEALED – THE SECRET OF TRUMP’s ‘POPULARITY RATINGS’

If has finally become clear – the Chump thrives on the ignorant American. He needs those who have no understanding of the way the world works. He needs those who have no clue on ‘economics’. He has his core of pseudo-intelligent folk, of course – those who only see the improvement in their investments as the sole measure of the success of the US economy. He has stated that the dramatic increase in US government debt is of no concern to him since he will not be President when it bites. The average low-intellect American likes him because he is loud and controversial and ‘overturns’ conventional politics. They do not see the damage he is doing to the country. He has bankrupted himself a few times and will do so to the US – yeah! ‘He’s an economic genius’. Tell the idiots the tariffs are pouring millions of Chinese dollars into the treasury – yeah! ‘He’s great!’

He has LIED to the Americans about the trade tariffs he has imposed on China. Yes, there are, sadly, some who believe him! He has LIED about the ‘success’ of his talks with North Korea (Yes, there are, sadly, some who believe him!) and LIED about his ‘success’ in defeating ISIS in Syria (Yes, there are, sadly, some who believe him!). He stumbles from failed ‘deal’ to failed deal and they love him for it. He spouts absolute CRAP at rallies – ‘Wind turbines give you cancer’ one of his latest. Amazingly, the ignorami suck it up. It is frightening. It is a sad reflection on a once proud nation. Until the Republicans can sort this mess out the slippery slope steepens daily.

We are now approaching the point where he NEEDS military action to distract the fools (Yes, there are, sadly, some who believe him!.....)

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#4744 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Sun May 12, 2019 8:09 pm

As a point of fact, he's held off military action for a lot longer than the last few Presidents, including one who won the Nobel Peace Prize and proceeded to be the only President to be at war for every day of his eight years in office. I'm not taking sides here, just chucking a few facts in.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#4745 Post by Boac » Sun May 12, 2019 8:56 pm

Agreed, Fox, but the word in the WH is that this creature - with no military background - has been stopped by wise heads.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#4746 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Mon May 13, 2019 12:59 am

Given the number of military guys he's chosen for various posts, it would appear he is prepared to listen, which is also more than can be said for his Presidential predecessors. Tony Blair and all his successors have avoided any military input, and totally f#cked up. The two things seem connected. Indeed, Bliar even managed to skive out of the compulsory year of CCF at school, and boy did it show.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#4747 Post by Boac » Mon May 13, 2019 7:23 am

Courtesy of Aljazeira
The White House's top economic adviser has admitted US businesses will suffer from tariffs on Chinese goods, contradicting US President Donald Trump's widely denounced claim that it would only be China that pays.

"Yes, I don't disagree with that," said Larry Kudlow, the head of the president's National Economic Council, when Chris Wallace, host of Fox News Sunday TV programme, asked him, "It's US businesses and US consumers who pay, correct?"


I wonder if he has an MBA? It's fake news, of course,. There will soon be a Presidential Order forbidding it.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#4748 Post by BenThere » Tue May 14, 2019 4:07 pm

Both sides pay to a degree. In the US, consumers of Chinese products, whether individuals or corporations are initially going to pay more for them. On the other hand US producers of those products have an increased margin. That should produce jobs, payroll taxes, and balance of payment improvement.

The nice thing about the US market is the size of it. The cost to China if we take our business elsewhere, and there are plenty of elsewheres, is huge. The cost to the US of shutting out Chinese imports through tariffs is much less than China's. President Trump knows this, though you don't as you haven't studied Economics.

At a personal level I have my own tariff. I would rather buy an American made product, say a pair of shoes, at $100, knowing it was made by American workers, who work in safe factories, probably have benefits, and flow their payrolls into our economy and support their families, than pay $75 for an equivalent Chinese pair of shoes with none of those benefits, and likely not made to the quality you get with American-made stuff in general.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#4749 Post by Boac » Tue May 14, 2019 4:28 pm

Aha! You agree!

One small change
" In the US, consumers of Chinese products, whether individuals or corporations are always initially going to pay more for them."

Still need to explain how China is paying billions of $ into the US treasury - tricky one that for an MBA? As I see it your ?'explanation'? says it is the US folk who are paying the billions. Not what the Chump said, is it?

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#4750 Post by BenThere » Tue May 14, 2019 5:07 pm

I'm not expert on how tariffs flow, but I believe they generally accrue as a tax which flows to the treasury upon entry into the country. If you do the math, $100 billion in imports would generate $25 billion to the US Treasury,

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#4751 Post by Boac » Tue May 14, 2019 6:30 pm

Oh dear! I think you need your money back on that Trump MBA you bought. :))

Apparently the latest figures from the US are that the 'average' family (Ben, FYI that's one that did NOT benefit much from the Chump's tax cuts for high earners) has been spending about $800 a year more because of last month's tariffs on China, and this will rise to over $2200 a year with the 'new' tariffs. Oh, sorry, I forgot - that will be $2200 that China is paying to these families, isn't it, Ben? According to the BEEB the 'normal 'dishwasher now costs $100 more than last year due to the tariffs.

Little wonder that there are apparently 23 Dem 'candidates' now for POTUS. Reasonable odds, I think.

One day even the stupid are going to wake up.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#4752 Post by BenThere » Fri May 17, 2019 12:30 pm

As an accredited economist, I find significant flaws in your premises, and question the validity of your sources. The Trump tax cuts benefited a broad cross-section of American taxpayers, not just high-earners. And that dishwasher is now made by Whirlpool, a Michigan company, adding income, jobs, and payroll taxes to the local economy. And it's a better dishwasher. Despite your fondest visions to the contrary, Americans in general are doing quite well in the Trump economy.

But I think we've exhausted the disparagement of my education and how President Trump has ruined everything and we should start to focus on the 2020 election so as not to see this thread move to page 2.

There's a long way to go, and before long Democrats will start shooting at each other as the Republicans did in 2016. Anything can happen. As of today I see Biden leading the pack and none of the announced candidates show much promise to overtake him so far. He is much like Sen. Bob Dole in 1996, an old horse whose time has come for the nomination, but has little chance of winning against a strong economy, general peace, and stability against the increasing Democrat leftward drift. Maybe we can talk about that.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#4753 Post by Bob » Fri May 17, 2019 1:18 pm

As an accredited economist
What does that actually mean?
I hereby declare the U.S.A. a Pariah state.
All U.S. Citizens or persons arriving from the U.S.A. will be denied access

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#4754 Post by BenThere » Fri May 17, 2019 3:50 pm

It means that I completed a course of study at a US university, the flagship school of my state, that had been awarded a certification that it possessed the faculty, resources, facilities and rigor to pass frequent periodical certification assessments to maintain its authority to award a degree by a recognized authority.

At my university, 8 semester classes in a discipline were required to award a degree in that discipline. I completed the 8 in economics, finance, and marketing - all three - so as a result I can claim a degree in all three. Having an economics degree makes me an economist. At graduate school I took four more economics courses, giving me an emphasis notation on my Masters of Business Administration degree.

You could have looked that up yourself, you know.

Now can we talk about the election?

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#4755 Post by Boac » Fri May 17, 2019 4:12 pm

No, plenty of time for that. Let's talk about how you should ask the Chump for your money back on your degree courses since either you skipped the modules on Import Tariffs, or, more likely, judging by his lack of understanding they just didn't cover that.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#4756 Post by Undried Plum » Fri May 17, 2019 4:28 pm

Ben,

Did your economics teacher teach you to believe that it is an exporting nation which pays import duties?

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#4757 Post by BenThere » Fri May 17, 2019 6:28 pm

I don't recall the subject coming up but it's been around 40 years since I toiled in a classroom. Now I'm retired and don't do homework anymore.

Why don't you do a case study on the subject and report back to us?

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#4758 Post by Undried Plum » Fri May 17, 2019 7:01 pm

Okay, I'll make it easy for you, Ben.

The answer is that it is the importer, not the exporter, who pays import duty.

Murricane consumer are having to pay tens of billions of bucks in Chump Tax for what they would have bought anyway.

Actually, they pay double, because crap Murricane manufactured goods don't compete with efficiently produced, better quality, goods imported from efficient Chinese producers.

It's a recipe for further decay in the Rust Belt of a collapsed America.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#4759 Post by John Hill » Fri May 17, 2019 8:17 pm

BenThere wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 6:28 pm
I don't recall the subject coming up but it's been around 40 years since I toiled in a classroom. Now I'm retired and don't do homework anymore.
I can trump you on that Ben, it is 54 years since I last sat in a classroom but I still do homework and learn something everyday.
Been in data comm since we formed the bits individually with a Morse key.

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Re: The US Hamster Wheel

#4760 Post by BenThere » Fri May 17, 2019 8:18 pm

It's a bit more complex than that, Mr. Plum. Demand for the Chinese product goes down with tariffs on Chinese products as American buyers seek alternatives. At the same time demand for American made products goes up as they are more able to compete. As I mentioned before that creates American jobs, payroll taxes, even lower unemployment and the associated costs of unemployment to government. While it's true that $1000 Chinese motor scooter is now $1250, the American consumer now finds a Japanese Honda, a qualitative improvement, a much more agreeable alternative.

American made products have come a long way over the past generation. American manufacturers are experiencing a fulsome resurgence in the Trump economy. My home town, Detroit, is on a tear with old, defunct and empty factories being refurbished and reoccupied at a breathtaking pace. It was the Rust Belt but now it's the hub of new investment, and employment hasn't been this high since I was a kid, and that was a long time ago. Your information is dated.

I have a 10 year old Chevy HHR in Michigan, in fact it's sitting in the Detroit airport employee parking lot right now as it has for the past month while I'm in Mexico. I have no doubt that it will start up and take me home when I return to the States on Monday. It hasn't failed me once since I bought it. That's quality. I just bought a new 2019 Honda BRV (sold in Mexico but not the US) to be my Mexico car. It's a decent small SUV and meets my needs here. While it has newer technology and should be reliable, driving it reveals it has little qualitative advantage over my old Chevy. And when I compare the operating cost of the old Chevy to our main car, a Mercedes GLE 350 I think the financial equation favors the Chevy by a huge margin, though it's not nearly as plush.

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