Hating each other peacefully.

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Cacophonix
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Hating each other peacefully.

#1 Post by Cacophonix » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:15 pm

Forget the Roberta Flack song about "Killing Me Softly..." there is nothing more likely to make even best friends want to kill each other rather noisily than the heated subject of politics and although this is not necessarily true of the denizens here (actually most folks are very polite) I thought I'd post this article from the Atlantic magazine which no doubt will ignite emotions both and contra as well reference the Middle East, Muslims and even the efficacy of the South African experiment! ;)

It is difficult to imagine it now, but continental Europe struggled with foundational divides—with periodic warnings of civil war—as recently as the 1950s. Belgium, Switzerland, Austria, and the Netherlands were divided into ideologically opposed subcultures, sometimes called “spiritual families” or “pillars.” These countries became models of “consensual democracy,” where the subcultures agreed to share power through creative political arrangements.

If we have learned anything, though, it is that lessons learned in Europe are not easily applied to the Middle East. Consensual democracy works best when there are multiple centers of power in society, none of which is strong enough to dominate on its own. While this more or less holds true in Lebanon, and even then precariously, it is not applicable in much of the region. In countries like Egypt, Turkey, and to a lesser extent Tunisia, the perception that Islamists are too strong and secularists too weak makes polarization significantly worse than it might otherwise be.

In continental Europe, the lines were also drawn more clearly. In Belgium, for instance, there were distinct groups of Flemish and Walloon that could be plainly identified. Egypt, Turkey, and Tunisia, however, relatively homogenous. More homogeneity is almost always viewed as a positive factor in forging national identity, but it can also have its drawbacks. Islamists and non-Islamists are different, but not different enough. They live in the same cities, go to the same schools, visit each other on holidays, and sit together at family dinners. This can make it better. It can also make it worse.

Despite this surface-level homogeneity, the underlying principles of consensual democracy—that power should be shared, dispersed, and restrained—can still be useful. A “pure” parliamentary system with only a ceremonial president could have helped alter Egypt’s course. But this is not what Egypt had. From independence onwards, the Egyptian president had always been a towering figure in the country’s politics, casting a shadow on everything else. As the first elected, civilian president in 2012, Morsi was, in fact, weaker than all of his predecessors, yet he still enjoyed disproportionate powers in Egypt’s centralized, top-heavy system. Not surprisingly, then, he became a lightning rod for the opposition. The fact that presidential contests are all or nothing—only one person, after all, can win –heightened the existential tenor of political competition. These dynamics allowed the military to capitalize on the anger that had coalesced around the person of President Morsi... READ MORE HERE.

https://www.theatlantic.com/internation ... al/485801/

Caco

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Re: Hating each other peacefully.

#2 Post by OFSO » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:44 pm

My policy statement: I hate most races "en masse" - French, Belgians, Germans etc - but accept every single member of those nationalities for what they are, and indeed I like most as individuals.

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Re: Hating each other peacefully.

#3 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:11 pm

Not only is it not "difficult to imagine" Europe with foundational divides, it's still happening.
Most of the Balkans is still in the process of breaking up, with a major war 20 years ago, The Czechs and Slovaks recently told each other to Foxtrot Oscar, Belgium was recently without a Parliament for 20 months, Catalunya is about to hold an illegal referendum on Independence, etc.
And now there are migrants from a completely alien culture being admitted in droves.
Just at the time when debt has become permanent, jobs are being lost, and wealth inequality is large and increasing rapidly. The politicians are deteriorating in capability and probity every year - when was the last time any UK political leader had a favourable approval rating?
This is going to end in tears in less than 10 years.

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Re: Hating each other peacefully.

#4 Post by John Hill » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:52 am

I posit that the imminent collapse of Europe is 99% wishful thinking.
Been in data comm since we formed the bits individually with a Morse key.

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Re: Hating each other peacefully.

#5 Post by Capetonian » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:34 am

John, that rather depends on what you define as 'collapse'.

What is clearly happening is a decay and an increasing lack of respect in society, overcrowding, crime, insecurity, and so on.

South Africa has always been 5 years from collapse, but still we sit here in our beautiful houses (some of us anyway), with domestic staff who can't get to work on time or at all because of inadequate public transport, swimming pools we can't use and gardens we can't water because of the drought, luxury cars we don't want to go out in because of the horrendous traffic ..........

I am about to go for a drive over the Durbanville Hills wine route and buy some wine!

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Re: Hating each other peacefully.

#6 Post by OFSO » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:37 am

in a speech to the Polish Parliament, which she made on 26 May, The Polish Prime Minister Szydło stated the following, with specific reference to the potential for harm which uncontrolled immigration poses for both the physical safety and the cultural integrity of Europe:

Where are you headed, Europe? Rise from your knees and from your lethargy, or you will be crying over your children every day.

If you cannot see that terrorism has the potential to hurt every country in Europe, and you think that Poland should not defend itself, you are going hand in hand with those who point this weapon against Europe, against all of us.

Do we want politicians who say we have to ‘get used to’ terrorist attacks?

And, of course, Prime Minister Szydło was not just referring to Polish politicians, but, rather, to European politicians, generally, and to the European Commission, in particular.


This week she said it was pointless asking (Poland) to accept immigrants within the EU quota (against which Poland etc voted) as "you are just sending a signal to the million more migrants waiting in Africa that you can come here, there is a home here waiting for you."

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Re: Hating each other peacefully.

#7 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:40 am

Africa has a population of 1.2 billion.

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