North Korea launched long(er) range missile.. July 4th.

[John Hill]

North Korea launched long(er) range missile on July 4th, Trump responded with a tweet.

This could really end badly but Trump does not have what it would take to bring this to a peaceful end.

[Bob]

C'mon John, give the Prez his due, he does have a Penis and a Brain and Hands, all of equal stature and impressiveness I've been told

[obgraham]

It seems to me that Trump has made a bit more progress towards dealing with Fat Kim than our previous fellow. Of course it is far too early to see how this will all play out.

However, John, since you started this thread once again laying blame where you usually do, I have a proposal for you:

If it turns out that Kim is dealt with in a way satisfactory to the countries involved, and without major loss of life -- will you agree to come back here and acknowledge Trump's diplomatic success, unorthodox as it might be?

On the other hand, if the whole shebang erupts and there's too many dead people for us all to accept, I'll agree to come here and accept that Trumpy hasn't a clue on the matter.

Let's give it, say 18 months. Whatsayyou?

[John Hill]

You must first define 'major' loss of life.

BTW, you failed to mention the third possibility.

[Sisemen]

Personally I'd lay North Korea to waste with a massive and incontestable nuclear strike and then machine-gun every Norks wearing a uniform that's still standing. But then again I'm noted for my moderate views.

[John Hill]

Personally I'd lay North Korea to waste with a massive and incontestable nuclear strike and then machine-gun every Norks wearing a uniform that's still standing. But then again I'm noted for my moderate views.

I wonder if that is why they are all out boosting their defences?

[obgraham]

So John, once again, you are revealing that you really don't give a patootie about the NK situation, as long as you can rag on about America. I understand.

[John Hill]

OBG, don't be such a troll.

[BackToAllNightLights]

Let's boil this down to facts a little:

N. Korea is developing nuclear weapons and specifically those weapons of a size to fit on missiles.
N. Korea is developing ICBMs.
N. Korea hates the US and probably the rest of the West with a lunatics passion.
N. Korea will not cease and desist from their course of action without compelling outside force.
Russia, China and the UN have so far been unable or unwilling to do the above.
The US will have a decision to make, eventually, sooner rather than later, on just what actions to take about the threat posed if China and Russia are not able to intervene.
The actionable possibilities taken by the US are being narrowed very tightly down to a military intervention and that intervention to be effective (i.e. reduce or eliminate risk to themselves and their allies), will have to be massive and comprehensive.
That action will have profound effects on US - China/Russian relations.

Kind of like a script isn't it?
Working title "Inevitable"

[John Hill]

Military intervention is not inevitable. All that is required is to break the cycle of tit-for-tat antagonism between USA/ROK and the DPRK. The DPRK is afraid to break the cycle and the USA is too ...... to do it.

The key word is "Argus!!!"

[obgraham]

OBG, don't be such a troll.

What rubbish, John.
Just once, in our long litany of posts and threads about NK, I'd like to see you make some concrete proposal that might lead to a peaceful settlement of the Korean issue. Perhaps a proposal that does not devolve back to the USA being the cause of the whole problem.
Quite simply, the USA cannot resolve the Korean problem -- only Koreans can. Their Asian neighbors can perhaps facilitate things.
China states it wants to be a world leader. But really they don't. They want to be seen as a world leader, without actually doing any "leading".
For the first time, I see evidence that Trump is speaking to China and the others in an effort to get them involved. I've no idea if this will be successful. No doubt if it is, you'll be critical.

[John Hill]

What rubbish, John.

Tut tut

Just once, in our long litany of posts and threads about NK, I'd like to see you make some concrete proposal that might lead to a peaceful settlement of the Korean issue.

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2396&hilit=letter+korea

Perhaps a proposal that does not devolve back to the USA being the cause of the whole problem.

You want me to ignore history?

Quite simply, the USA cannot resolve the Korean problem -- only Koreans can.

Once again America is expecting someone else to clear up their mess?

China states it wants to be a world leader. But really they don't. They want to be seen as a world leader, without actually doing any "leading".

If you say so. I thought the USA was the self appointed leader of the free world.

For the first time, I see evidence that Trump is speaking to China and the others in an effort to get them involved. I've no idea if this will be successful. No doubt if it is, you'll be critical.

You think he should solve whatever problem there might be by involving others?

[Bob]

OB, I think the Key is for both sides to stop regarding each other as a problem
As mentioned above, NK hates America with a passion, but most seem to think it is a one way hate...it isn't, America's attitude is just the same, the only difference is how they display that hatred.

True that there is much to despise about the NK regime, but America needs to get over itself and stop trying to police the world, the world is not under it's care and does not have to abide by America's Rules........America just doesn't get that, It never has.

If NK attacks an ally then of course retaliation is in order, untill that happens the fragile ego's puffing their chest out need to chill.

[John Hill]

As mentioned above, NK hates America with a passion, but most seem to think it is a one way hate...it isn't, America's attitude is just the same, the only difference is how they display that hatred.

I think you will find a few other differences. America divided Korea and gave one half in to the care of a murderous dictator and the other half to Stalin. America dropped more than 600,000 tons of bombs on North Korea and about 33,000 tons of napalm. Americans killed about 13% of the population of North Korea. America has been threatening North Korea with nuclear destruction for the last 65 years. Compared to that the list of atrocities committed by North Korea against the USA pales somewhat into insignificance.

[Bob]

Sorry Caco



[bbvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2DJLuVKlt8[/bbvideo]

[John Hill]

A very useful contribution Bob.

[obgraham]

You two prefer to see the Korean Peninsula remain in conflict.

[Bob]

Tell me who's idea was it to split the country in half just to take it out of Japans hands and start all this crap in the first place eh?

I honestly don't know, but I do know NK didnt exist till a couple of superpowers (now who might they be?) stuck their nose in and created a **** up North South Divide (after first bombing and burning the crap out of the ordinary people of course...see a patten perhaps?)

These are facts, remember how we used to put store in them, the current generation of young 'adults' hardly knows any of this happened and that suits the leaders of the 'free' world just fine

[obgraham]

You are spinning your wheels, Bob.
What do you suggest be done now, in 2017?

[Sisemen]

"Tell me who's idea was it to split the country in half just to take it out of Japans hands and start all this crap in the first place eh?"

Well......the US dropped a nuke on Hiroshima on 6 Aug; the Soviet Union declared war on Japan on 8 Aug and threatened invasion the following day ... which was the date of the bomb on Nagasaki and the Japs indicated they wanted to surrender on 10 Aug.

On the immediate post-war carve up, because the Soviet Union had actually declared war on Japan (but did effectively cock all), they won a seat at the carve-up table and grabbed the top slice of Korea. Presumably they knew that they were pretty safe as the Americans had done all the heavy lifting against the Japs and they could make territorial gains they'd been eying off for years with no effort at all. Machiavellian bastards them Soviets.

And the US has been trying to keep the south protected from invasion from the twats to the north ever since.

Here endeth the history lesson.