Should we be more worried about plastic than global warming?

[Mrs Ex-Ascot]

Well it now appears that decomposing plastic releases gasses into the atmosphere that are believed to contribute to global warming.

From the Daily Mail; http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... light.html

[Jetex Jim]

A bit of a turn around for the DM. Do they now believe in global warming?

[Slasher]

TS I have found your rationale about plastics to be sound, but it's surprising you've been sucked into that GW nonsense by the DM with it.

Those idiotic GW dickheads will associate anything with climate if it's (politically) convenient and expedient. Even hippos in Bots if those loonies were motivated to do so.

[Mrs Ex-Ascot]

DON'T PANIC FOLKS!!!! No I haven't been sucked in by The Daily Mail and firmly remain an unbeliever in Global Warming.

I did however find it interesting that even the researchers were surprised by their findings; and no matter whether these gasses have any effect on anything at all it's still interesting to note that the doom mongerers when doing their gas calculations never knew about decomposing plastic.

Whatever the effects of these gasses being released into the atmosphere by decomposing plastic it can't be very healthy in the long term surely?

[Woody]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-45107504

However Western Cape is looking a lot better after this winters rain.

[Mrs Ex-Ascot]

Good to see Aldi doing something positive to reduce plastic pollution.

From the DM; http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... ycled.html

[John Hill]

Regrettably there is little that can be done about plastic pollution in the oceans but a concerted effort to stop more getting there would be useful. Unwanted plastics should be packed in landfills where it will be safe forever or until there is a use found for it.


One thing positive about Global Warming is that it will stop people worrying about plastic pollution.

[G-CPTN]

Whilst I can understand that current methods of automatically sorting 'waste' results in black plastic not being recognised.
If it is, actually recyclable, then manual collection of these black trays should be possible.
If, however, it is not possible to recycle black plastics due to the blackness, then they could be 'burned' and the heat used to generate electricity.
I was lead to believe that containers that had held food were not suitable for recycling due to 'contamination' (though fresh fruit shouldn't be a problem IMO). Washing contaminated containers in hot water probably 'costs' too much in energy - but do containers that have been cleaned by the consumer get rejected as they 'might' be contaminated?
We need someone with experience of recycling to advise.

I was somewhat surprised some years ago to discover that universities offer degrees in waste management - from HNC to Masters level, too . . .

and there is a Chartered Institute of Waste Management - I suppose you qualify if you get a rubbish degree?

[G-CPTN]

From the interweb:-

Black plastic is the least valuable (that’s why your bin bags are black), and the reason is simple.

You can dye clear plastic black, but you can’t dye black plastic clear.

Black plastic is very low value, so black food trays, bin bags, pvc guttering pipes etc, most often won't get recycled because they have little value on the other end of the market.

It’s a money driven industry, like everything else.

[Mrs Ex-Ascot]

As of 1st September single use plastic carrier bags are banned in Botswana. Already the supermarkets have removed plastic carrier bags from their checkouts and I guess the sale of eco- friendly reusable bags has soared. It was interesting to see that our local pharmacy has stopped the use of small single use plastic bags; not sure if it part of the new laws or the owner has decided to be more eco-friendly. It's interesting to note that this former British Protectorate seems to be doing better than the UK at the moment as regards removing this source of plastic pollution.

[BenThere]

A problem has surfaced, though, with the reusable bags, that being they provide a home for harmful bacteria between trips to the grocery. Unless they are laundered, which they seldom are, consumers are placing their produce in a dirty container. Additionally, the production of reusables is far more costly than the minuscule cost of plastic bags, which are themselves often reused as trash bags.

I'm tending toward the idea of incentivizing the collection and recycling to recover the energy and industrial reconstitution plastics can be used for. There needs to be an economically viable plastic recovery scheme that will suck up the plastics swirling in the oceans and in our landfills. Ideas are emerging to do that, but they are incipient.

I think any reasonable person knows that plastic pollution is a problem. The companies that produce plastics have no accountability or responsibility for the shells of their products after their useful lives are expended, or what happens to the packaging. We need to find a better way to recover the energy in plastics and remove them from the environment.

I remember growing up in Michigan that there were beer and soft drink cans littered everywhere. I had to be careful swimming in Lake Huron as a child to avoid stepping on a rusty can that had washed near the beach. Michigan was one of, if not the first, state to impose a $.10 deposit on all beverage containers, collected at purchase by the retailer. So people started saving their cans and bottles, taking them back to the grocer for a refund. Machines were built so you could take the containers back, feed them in to the machine and get your refund, a fairly quick and easy process. In my neighborhood today, kids collect cans from lazy homeowners like me and take them to recycling points to raise funds for their causes. Win-win. Also, you hardly ever see a littered container anywhere in Michigan these days. If someone throws one out the car window, someone else will be along shortly to pick it up and cash it in. It's an example of good policy with good results. We need solutions like that, I think, to address the plastic problem.

https://spectator.org/the-free-market-s ... -tax-cuts/

[Mrs Ex-Ascot]

This is an interesting article about attempts to remove rubbish from the ocean. There are some interesting comments as to whether it is worth the effort and perhaps the money should be spent on preventing rubbish getting into thr oceans in the first place. I agree with the comment that efforts should be made to clean up the oceans and prevent more getting into them.

I know it's the DM but it is a well written article IMO. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech ... Earth.html

[G-CPTN]

I see that the towing vessel is from Maersk.
The industrial company for which I worked in Denmark was a subsiduary of Maersk and one of their products was conveyor belting.
Sometimes during the manufacturing process the plies would delaminate.
Research found that the 'bubble' could be pressurised with air - allowing the faulty conveyor belting to float - and if they attached chains to one edge the 'tube' would float 'upright'.
Once the technique for producing continuous lengths of faulty delaminated belting was perfected, the resulting product was adopted to contain oil-spillages at sea (a significant part of the Maersk activity was associated with oil-field production).
The delaminated belting could be transported on a drum before being inflated and the chains attached as it was rolled-out and deployed to effect a boom around the spill and the oil could be sucked into vessels.

Video here:- Ro-Boom deployment

It looks to me as if the method for collecting the plastic is a derivation of the oil-spill containment method.
I wonder if the originator is receiving royalties?

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

One of the big problems with most recycling schemes is that total use cost is not considered, usually because no element of the system is liable for all of it. And that's environmental cost as well as financial cost. For example, the cost of recycling often doesn't consider the cost of transportation, which ISTR makes recycling sensible in cities but not rurally. Then there's regulations. For example, Government usually requires transparent bags for waste collection so contents can be checked, but supermarkets aren't required to make bags mostly transparent, which would enable re-use.
To the best of my recollection,glass bottles makes the most sense as they can be washed and re-used, and cans used to be banned here until less than a decade ago for that very reason. As with Ben There, there used to be very little discarding of bottles but there's a lot more discarding of cans.

[llondel]

South Cambridgeshire invested millions in a decent waste sorting plant. Given that all the stuff is going to be collected and dragged off to landfill by default, it's sensible to put a sorting centre at the landfill site and pull out the fairly significant proportion of what was going into landfill that can be recycled. They recycled almost 58% of household waste last year.

[BenThere]

I'm in tune with that idea, Hondel. I've proposed in the past that much of our societal waste material, including household trash, could be conveyed on belts to the landfill while prisoners doing time for crime could be utilized to sort out the recyclable elements of the trash, along with trash components that could be incinerated to produce energy. As an incentive to the sorters, a portion of the proceeds from their gleanings could be allocated to them, a portion to compensate their victims, and a portion to pay for their maintenance while incarcerated. Win-win-win.

As for the large question of swirling plastic in the oceans, a simple research quest will reveal that the primary source of that detritus is 2nd and 3rd world nations with inadequate collection and disposal infrastructure, not advanced industrial and consumer economies.

The fundamental bottom line on controlling any of humanity's waste is to make it economically rewarding to capture and recycle it, or if it's not recyclable develop ways to utilize it or alternatives that meet sustainability criteria.

This is a much better problem to tackle than Global Warming/Climate Change as this problem is real and not a political wealth redistribution scheme, dressed up to look like saving the planet.

[Slasher]

Good suggestion Ben. I've always advocated bunging unemployed bums at the trash dump to sort out junk as a means to justify their handouts, but prisoners would probably be better for the reasons you gave.

Here at home sorting out recyclables is voluntary - which means no one does it including me. I mean garbage is garbage. If they want to divide it all up into recyclables for purposes of global scamming or simply to conserve resources they can do it at the dump itself. Besides, garbologists are better judges of what crap can be usefully recycled and what can't.

[llondel]

As for the large question of swirling plastic in the oceans, a simple research quest will reveal that the primary source of that detritus is 2nd and 3rd world nations with inadequate collection and disposal infrastructure, not advanced industrial and consumer economies.

This is fueled, in part, by the advanced nations shipping their waste to said 2nd and 3rd world countries for disposal because it's cheaper, without really considering why it's cheaper.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

China has largely, and in the case of Canada completely, stopped accepting waste. This is leading to a massive backup which many authorities are keeping very quiet about. It does completely destroy the purpose of separating it out as it will now all have to go to landfill. I expect there will be some big changes in the next couple of years.
Recycling here is voluntary, but there is almost complete compliance with the guidelines. PEI has the highest level of recycling anywhere, I think. This is probably due to living on a small Island with agriculture, aquaculture and tourism as the main employers. Anything dumped is pretty soon going to be affecting your or those around you's livelihood.

[BenThere]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Fox, but PEI enjoys an autonomy that I don't think pertains for many of us. I would guess we Americans have a lot more dealing with Washington than PEIslanders deal with Ottawa. My guess is you're a much more closed society, which I think is good in accordance with my general view that the more governance is devolved to localities where governmental impact is felt directly, the better governance will be.

The central, federal government is needed to build F-35's, fight the Jihadis, protect the Constitution and such. But dealing with such issues as waste and recycling is best left to local authorities, I think.