The Rise and Fall of Civilisation As We Know It.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

In the UK, a teacher submits a working with children check request to their school, who check it and send it to another educational institution with 100+ applicants a year, who check it and send it to a Government agency, who check it and send it to the Police.
In Canada, the teacher submits the form to the Police.

[BenThere]

I expect South Africa, once its agricultural sector is destroyed by government policy, will descend into the same throes of desperation experienced in Zimbabwe. Who could have seen this coming?

[Slasher]

In the UK, a teacher submits a working with children check request to their school, who check it and send it to another educational institution with 100+ applicants a year, who check it and send it to a Government agency, who check it and send it to the Police.

See seasons 1 and 2 of Yes Minister for an education in why such procedures are so.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

It is indeed an education. I have used bits of it on many occasions, and sent my sister the boxed set when she started working for local Government.

[BenThere]

Fox, I've seldom been a classroom teacher, but I have thousands of hours as an instructor pilot and I think there are some parallels.

The real reward is when you somehow impart some knowledge or wisdom and the student shows progress and understanding. It might be technical or it might be philosophical, but when you get that lightbulb to go on in the student/target, it's magic as much for you as it is for the novice you're teaching.

A really cool thing about flying, and I'm sure about math, engineering and such, is that you can do it at the level of a private pilot, which is basically keeping the airplane under control in good weather, to operating very complex aircraft under all conditions, with a multitude of systems you have to manage. The best fighter pilots have a dimension above the level I got to, but I did get to the pinnacle of airline flying. And just by the time when I finally had it all figured out, I had to retire.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Getting the light to go on is indeed the pleasure, whether as an IP (I have 400hrs given on Cessnas), classroom teacher. or indeed any other kind of teacher/instructor.
It's also a delight when they go beyond what you've done/thought of, because of what they learned from you about basic principles, and how to analyse.
Indeed, this is the very stuff of civilization, especially when combined with moral/philosophical principles, which one also imparts a lot of in a boarding school, and in an aeroplane. Life and Death stuff, and all that.
It's also a tragedy when the system decides to prevent one from doing all of that, and then loses people like me as a result. All of my Heads of Science, before I became one, have also retired early, with one like me emigrating also. And another of my staff emigrated the same year I did.

[BenThere]

Every generation has to let go and leave it to the next. Some, like those who came out of the Depression and were thrust into WWII, faced daunting, terrifying challenges, but for the most part met the task before them with honor, pluck, luck, and courage. Since then, mostly, kids have finished school to face recessions, lack of employment opportunities, and the challenges of making a living when there's little opportunity and a lot of competition. Political and social turmoil seems to face nearly every generation.

When you do let go and leave it to the next lot, you have to embrace faith that they'll come around to do the right thing, learn from their mistakes, and ultimately either create a better world and maybe enduring some dark ages before they get it right. If you've secured your old age you can be somewhat sanguine about what they do with the world we've given them, good and bad.

I worry about the future of Europe with it's headlong embrace of masses of immigrants hostile to its culture, the decadence and division of American society, the continuing piling on of debt that can't be repaid, and our failure to effectively educate our children and equip them with the tools for analytical thought. But I recall growing up listening to my parental generation railing about how we were going to hell in a hand basket, yet we somehow survived. Life will carry on, I think, and maybe even get better - or worse.

[Undried Plum]

If you've secured your old age you can be somewhat sanguine about what they do with the world we've given them, good and bad.

We baby boomers had the golden age. I suspect that three or four generations from now they will be pissing on our graves and asking "What the fukk were you people thinking of?"

We've racked up incomprehendable levels of debt and left it to future generations to sort out the mess we've left them. We've **** up the planet's ecology to an extent that is damn nearly irreparable.

Just take a look at the scale of the debt thing. Total debt per family: $847,952. Total savings per family: $12,750.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

There's no such thing as a generation. Baby boomer is just a convenient grouping of birth dates.
Give me one characteristic universally, or even generally, applicable to those born in that date range that doesn't apply to those born before or after.
There isn't one.
As to the debt thing, UK national debt as a % of GDP decreased all the way up to 1990, so the idea of a privileged generation falls flat.
The planet's ecology was no more cared for before the boomers than until they came along, take all the coal and mine slagheaps as a simple example. The mess is bigger because industry is bigger because technology has advanced and the population has increased, just as the mess left by the Victorians was bigger than that left by the Elizabethans. If anything, it is boomers who started the whole ecology thing going, especially in an academic sense.
And who has the debt? It's not me; I didn't run up a huge debt, or vote for one. I was underpaid for all my employment compared to those in the years before me and after me, relative to national average wages. The simple fact is I was careful with money and worked very hard, as did my siblings, who are not 'Baby Boomers'. I didn't behave the same as my so-called generation, I behaved the way I did mostly because that's how my family brought me up, and they weren't the same as the families of their so-called generation either.
I reject the blame that's being ascribed to 'generations', both mine and others. 'Kids these days' are no lazier or more stupid than I was as a kid. I know, I've taught them and helped bring them up, both in the UK and other countries.
In fact I find the whole social group blame game wholly counterproductive, as well as intellectually unjustifiable.

[Cacophonix]

There's no such thing as a generation. Baby boomer is just a convenient grouping of birth dates.
Give me one characteristic universally, or even generally, applicable to those born in that date range that doesn't apply to those born before or after.
There isn't one.
As to the debt thing, UK national debt as a % of GDP decreased all the way up to 1990, so the idea of a privileged generation falls flat.
The planet's ecology was no more cared for before the boomers than until they came along, take all the coal and mine slagheaps as a simple example. The mess is bigger because industry is bigger because technology has advanced and the population has increased, just as the mess left by the Victorians was bigger than that left by the Elizabethans. If anything, it is boomers who started the whole ecology thing going, especially in an academic sense.
And who has the debt? It's not me; I didn't run up a huge debt, or vote for one. I was underpaid for all my employment compared to those in the years before me and after me, relative to national average wages. The simple fact is I was careful with money and worked very hard, as did my siblings, who are not 'Baby Boomers'. I didn't behave the same as my so-called generation, I behaved the way I did mostly because that's how my family brought me up, and they weren't the same as the families of their so-called generation either.
I reject the blame that's being ascribed to 'generations', both mine and others. 'Kids these days' are no lazier or more stupid than I was as a kid. I know, I've taught them and helped bring them up, both in the UK and other countries.
In fact I find the whole social group blame game wholly counterproductive, as well as intellectually unjustifiable.

A lot to agree with here. Actually everything to agree with. Well said.

I think these things are cyclical, we humans never seem to learn but the causes, effects and outcomes are being exacerbated by technology, population growth etc. in a feedback loop and all the elements that have been latent in humans, both good and bad for millennia are being amplified. One can only hope that the good finally outweighs the bad, mind you otherwise, I suspect, we are facing one almighty crash, financial or otherwise, which could be the harbinger of the war that will see us throwing Einstein's proverbial rocks at each other in the aftermath.

Caco

[Seenenough]

I expect South Africa, once its agricultural sector is destroyed by government policy, will descend into the same throes of desperation experienced in Zimbabwe. Who could have seen this coming?

Actually quite few of us who cleared out some wile ago to start new lives elsewhere ,Ben

[Capetonian]

I know a number of well established dyed-in-the-wool loyal South African families who are leaving because of the new government's racist and ill thought out policies. They are the ones who can, the mobile, the educated, and the wealthy, they are those the country needs because they provide jobs and pay taxes and keep industry and agriculture going.

Those sectors will be handed over to uneducated and incompetent people who will get the jobs on a political, rather than a suitability, basis. Farms handed over to the unskilled will become unproductive within a year, and dustbowls within two to three years.

[Magnus]

When I was 15, my schoolteachers stopped teaching me facts, and started encouraging me to learn for myself. Best thing that happened.

[BenThere]

Actually quite few of us who cleared out some wile ago to start new lives elsewhere ,Ben

And I've met many over the years around the world. A close friend, an Irish American, was working for China Eastern, or maybe it was China Southern, out of Hong Kong and met a young South African expat woman working for her South African company buying and trading Chinese shoes.

I met her when I was on a long layover in Hong Kong and hooked up with my friend, Erin, for a sumptuous dinner at Ruth's Cris on Kowloon, just the three of us. I think we were at the table around 8 hours, drinking wine, talking about our life experiences and outlooks. I found her absolutely scintillating, and what a loss for SA to lose such a person. Erin and Carole got married 10 or so years ago and I last visited them in Honolulu, where he now flies A-330s for Hawaiian Airlines, a few years ago. They now have four handsome young sons. She was a catch. Happy ending.

Never met a South African I didn't like. I haven't met Caco.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

[BenThere]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't black South Africans during apartheid enjoying a higher standard of living, economically, relative to the rest of Africa? Are they better off now that they are in control? Is the outlook good?

My feeling is that the white South African retainers are critical to the well-being of SA. Once they are driven out or genocided South Africa will become just another failed state, destitute and desperate.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

weren't black South Africans during apartheid enjoying a higher standard of living

The ones now ruling SA weren't

[BenThere]

A few years ago, when I was still allowed to post on TOP, I offered a South African, known as Solid Rust Twotter as I recall, refuge at our family farm in Michigan, a comfortable old Victorian 4 bedroom house, a few acres and some security should he want to escape SA. No charge. He kindly responded, "No thanks. This is where I live." I hope he's doing okay now, wherever he is. If I were white and living in SA now, I think I would be almost desperately trying to figure out how to get out of there and take my assets with me.

[Seenenough]

A few years ago, when I was still allowed to post on TOP, I offered a South African, known as Solid Rust Twotter as I recall, refuge at our family farm in Michigan, a comfortable old Victorian 4 bedroom house, a few acres and some security should he want to escape SA. No charge. He kindly responded, "No thanks. This is where I live." I hope he's doing okay now, wherever he is. If I were white and living in SA now, I think I would be almost desperately trying to figure out how to get out of there and take my assets with me.

Ben-It is tragic what is going on.We were lucky enough to get out almost ten years ago and after a lot of waiting and also money spent, get approval for Green Cards which we are extremely grateful for.

SA is a glaring example to the world as to what outcomes arise when Socialism and Communist principles takes hold.

Many of our friends ridiculed us for leaving for several years (never mind where we settled ) but recently are now asking us to help suggest ways to get into the US.In the last three or so months I must have referred six families to the Immigration Attorney who guided us to a successful outcome.

That said there is also family and many things we dearly miss having left SA to start over once more so that our children do not have to suffer the un-resolvable tragedy of SA.

[BenThere]

I think you're in a better place, Seenenough. All the best.

You reminded me of some of the music from the WWII era - 'I'll be seeing you' and such. The wrenching heartache of those times - lovers from each other, dutiful soldiers trained and deployed to exotic and unheard of places, separations of years from wives and family. And for many the unbearable pain of losing a son, lover, friend. All we can do is look at the moon and hope those we love are out there, looking at the same moon, and are well.

On the upside, when you land at a new place and have a new beginning, you have the opportunity to reinvent your life and do it right this time.