Chaos in Spain

[OFSO]

No mobile internet in Figueras and I think Girona and Barcelona this morning. I suspect Madrid turned off to prevent use of WhatsApp and Tsunami. Talk in the changing room was stay clear of G and B.

[OFSO]

Another night of violence in Barcelona. TV3 this morning shows clubbing by police of bystanders just standing there. Easy targets. Motorway closed at border with France, also at Girona etc.

[Boac]

Time, I think, for General Tusk to lead the European army into Spain to sort it out.

[OFSO]

General strike in Catalunia today, minimal services. Fascists were out last night, nearly beat to death a young man walking past whom they believed to be separatist.

[BenThere]

Just this morning I read 500,000 Barcelonians took to the streets to protest Spanish rule. That's a big crowd in anyone's book. Did even Reagan or GWB generate that level of outrage?

At this point I don't think Spain's Catalunian problem is going away anytime soon. Personally, I fundamentally support the will of the people to throw off the yoke of government they decide is no longer serving their needs and is indeed oppressing them (in their view). Today I apply that principle to Catalonia, Scotland, Kurdistan, and Hong Kong, and sense there are more places that fly under my radar, like Zimbabwe.

One of the great truths history has shown is that Freedom isn't free, but must be fought for and, once achieved, be protected and preserved. That struggle is one of the eternal and noble undertakings of the societies engaged in it. The rewards of Freedom, independence and self-government, passed along to progeny, is the best heritage a generation can leave. Being American, I was so blessed, and do my best to carry that baton, all the while honoring those who gave that heritage to me.

Go Brexit!

[OFSO]

Those crowds who protested in Barcelona consisted of people who had been walking to reach the city, many started three days earlier, walking along the high speed autovias or motorways, blocking one lane. TV news shots of them every day rammed the point home: just ordinary people. Many were not terribly pro-independence initially, but were outraged at the prison sentences handed out to their leaders.

Sadly, most folk living in democratic countries are judging the Spanish government and Supreme Court by the standards of their own lands. A serious error. In no other civilised country does a person protesting against his government's actions face prison sentences of tens of years for 'sedition' or 'rebellion' or 'terrorism' - for example, by burning a photograph of the king, singing a song with a political bias,or arranging an art exhibition showing dissidents' work.

My personal view is that the Catalan separatists still don't understand the hard line that Madrid follows. Democracy is a concept far from Spanish understanding. Madrid will fight back harder and harder. Of course the EU could intervene is it did in the cases of Hungary and Poland - but will not because Spain supports Brussels.

Spanish don't like discussing the Civil War. They should, because remembering it might help to stop the next one. When I came to Spain in 1992 I thought that there would, could, never be another Civil War because 1937-39 was so horrible, so brutal, so disgusting. I know people whose grandparents were machine-gunned on the Girona road and while alive doused in petrol and set on fire. Now I have almost left Spain I see on the streets of Barcelona the horrors of the past forgotten and the first hints of a new wave of brutality...

[BenThere]

Could Catalonia align with the Basques to augment their throw weight?

From what you describe the Madrid government is overbearing and has the potential to return to fascistic militarism and brutality to keep Catalonia (or is it Catalunia ?) in tow. Another question I have is regarding the popularity and outlook for the party in power in Madrid. We don't get a lot of coverage in the US about this subject, but the drift I get is that a lot of Spaniards support the Catalonian movement as a basic right to self-determination.

I'm very interested in your ongoing comments, OFSO, as this story continues to develop.

[OFSO]

The Spanish Supreme Court has now ruled the Tsunami Democratica website used to coordinate demonstrations to be closed under the Terrorism Laws. Not quite worked out how to close a site hosted outside Spain, but they are working on it. Also putting 28 demonstrators in prison, no bail, prosecutor asking for six years custodial sentence.

[OFSO]

Government in Madrid...After the previous government was kicked out for massive financial corruption ..there have been three General Elections in three years, and Spain is again under a caretaker government. There will be yet another General Election next month. The ruling Socialist Party have no majority and can only rule with an alliance with the extreme right wing (Vox, fanatical) or Catalans. Either alliance alienates the remaining parties. To sum up what's coming in November: the same problems, the same parties, the same persons. Which inevitably means: same results.

Most Spanish hate at worst or dislike the Catalans and wish they'd shut up. But they are not going away.

Two facts: income tax is lower in Madrid province than anywhere else. Motorways are toll-free in Madrid province but not in Catalonia.

There was a huge demonstration of thousands of pensioners last week in Madrid which received no publicity outside Spain. The government reneged on promises to raise the state pension to a reasonable level..

And so it goes....

[OFSO]

The United Kingdom and Spain demonstrate in different ways the fallability of Democracy. Germany also, but you do not need democracy where citizens are brought up to do what they are told (I lived there for 25 very happy years).

[OFSO]

Generalissimo Franco is due to be exhumed on Thursday at 10:30* and subsequently reburied in Madrid's El Pardo cemetery where his wife awaits him. No doubt the streets will be lined with his supporters for the reburial.

* I am sure this will be shown live on Spanish TV.

[barkingmad]

Madrid government .....overbearing....fascistic militarism.....brutality.......keep...in tow today?

Brussels-Based EU.......ditto.....with dissenters tomorrow?

If the EU is such a close and happy conglomeration of disparate nation states the why aren’t Tusk et al doing something more assertive and positive to prevent one of their member states from descending into chaos & civil war?

Sorry, I forgot, Spain totally supports Brussels, the Spanish economy being in the doldrums with high youth unemployment and tourism revenues badly affected by Thos Cook going under.

Bearing in mind if UK Leave voters have been targeted with the title “Fascists” and “Anti-Democratic, how will Madrid manage to package and sell their behaviour under any other brand name?

[OFSO]

Franco's exhumed body will be helicoptered into the Madrid cemetery today. All roads are sealed off. Can't have thousands of supporters lining the route giving fascist salutes now, can we ? Might give the rest of Europe the wrong impression of Spain....

[OFSO]

An all-white helicopter, of course, indicating his sins have been forgiven.

[OFSO]

I was right...... Live TV from Madrid. Crowds standing at police barriers, fascist salutes, women weeping, signs held up saying "Gracias Franco".

[OFSO]

Are you doing anything on Thursday ? I'm going out !

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[OFSO]

Questions being asked in Spain as to who were all those people giving fascist salutes at Franco's reinterment. Stupid question. Just ordinary Spanish citizens, that's who.

[barkingmad]

“The EU has treated the crisis as an internal matter for Spain, deaf to the the Separatists’ pleas for support, but there have been warnings that the issue is damaging Spain’s democratic credentials”.

Allegedly 350,000 took to the streets of Barcelona in support yesterday but of course EU HQ are asleep at weekends.

(I wonder if UK will see as many Brexit voters on the march when it all fizzles out and collapses?)

Of course when it comes to economics and German banks the Brussels Elite are very pro-active when it comes to intervention and action

Ask the Greeks or read Varoufakis’s book on the topic?

[OFSO]

Worrying is the number of people in Barcelona carrying placards saying "We tried peaceful protest and it was ignored/didn't work."'

[OFSO]

50,000 marched today for Spanish Unity. 350,000 marched yesterday for Catalan separatism. Says it all....