Are the Police fit for purpose

A place to discuss politics and things related to Govts
Message
Author
User avatar
Bob
Capt
Capt
Posts: 1070
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:38 pm
Location: Here

Re: Are the Police fit for purpose

#21 Post by Bob » Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:54 pm

Hmm...........2009-2016
UK population increase = 3 million (yes Im surprised)...
UK police farce increase = Minus-21,600 (no im not surprised)

Yep That'll work
I hereby declare the U.S.A. a Pariah state.
All U.S. Citizens or persons arriving from the U.S.A. will be denied access

User avatar
ian16th
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 10029
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:35 am
Location: KZN South Coast with the bananas
Gender:
Age: 87

Re: Are the Police fit for purpose

#22 Post by ian16th » Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:57 pm

Apparently Monaco has 1 policeman for every 70 residents.
Cynicism improves with age

G-CPTN
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 7594
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:22 pm
Location: Tynedale
Gender:
Age: 79

Re: Are the Police fit for purpose

#23 Post by G-CPTN » Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:13 pm

ian16th wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:57 pm
Apparently Monaco has 1 policeman for every 70 residents.
Do residents get assigned their own officer?

Boac
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17209
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:12 pm
Location: Here

Re: Are the Police fit for purpose

#24 Post by Boac » Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:42 pm

At a price, no doubt...............

Mind you, there's a heck of a lot of speeding on those roads.

User avatar
ian16th
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 10029
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:35 am
Location: KZN South Coast with the bananas
Gender:
Age: 87

Re: Are the Police fit for purpose

#25 Post by ian16th » Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:02 pm

Boac wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:42 pm
At a price, no doubt...............

Mind you, there's a heck of a lot of speeding on those roads.
Only one week a year!
Cynicism improves with age

AtomKraft
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 2549
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:05 am
Location: Planet Claire
Gender:
Age: 63

Re: Are the Police fit for purpose

#26 Post by AtomKraft » Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:10 am

The Police have their own purpose, and it doesn't involve the public.

User avatar
llondel
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5913
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:17 am
Location: San Jose

Re: Are the Police fit for purpose

#27 Post by llondel » Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:19 am

My immediate thought was "define the purpose".

Pontius Navigator
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 14669
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:17 am
Location: Gravity be the clue
Gender:
Age: 80

Re: Are the Police fit for purpose

#28 Post by Pontius Navigator » Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:39 am

Thinking back to my earlier post, police stations in the 50s outnumber policemen today. In Birkenhead we had 3 police forces. Apart from the main police, we had the Mersey Tunnel police, we also had park police. They were probably retired professional police and certainly in Victoria Park they operated out of the Well Lane police station.
For all I know, we may have had separate dock police too.
Remember too all major office blocks had a Commisionaire, usually ex-army and every hole in the road and building site had a night watchman sitting by a coke brazier. Don't we get thefts from building sites anymore or just some private contractor driving round in a van.
I remember one contemporary novel of the 20s, in might have been Bulldog Drummond :"I opened the window and called to the nearest policeman."
Remember police on traffic duty? In the Grimsby museum there was a picture of a policeman on point duty in Riby Square. It was my father in law, complete with Cape and lead shot in the hem. .

ribrash

Re: Are the Police fit for purpose

#29 Post by ribrash » Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:29 am

Pontius Navigator wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:39 am
Thinking back to my earlier post, police stations in the 50s outnumber policemen today. In Birkenhead we had 3 police forces. Apart from the main police, we had the Mersey Tunnel police, we also had park police. They were probably retired professional police and certainly in Victoria Park they operated out of the Well Lane police station.
For all I know, we may have had separate dock police too.
Remember too all major office blocks had a Commisionaire, usually ex-army and every hole in the road and building site had a night watchman sitting by a coke brazier. Don't we get thefts from building sites anymore or just some private contractor driving round in a van.
I remember one contemporary novel of the 20s, in might have been Bulldog Drummond :"I opened the window and called to the nearest policeman."
Remember police on traffic duty? In the Grimsby museum there was a picture of a policeman on point duty in Riby Square. It was my father in law, complete with Cape and lead shot in the hem. .
We still have the Mersey Tunnel Force and a separate Dock Force.

Pontius Navigator
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 14669
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:17 am
Location: Gravity be the clue
Gender:
Age: 80

Re: Are the Police fit for purpose

#30 Post by Pontius Navigator » Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:36 am

I wonder if Humber Bridge and Dartford have their own police too.

User avatar
tango15
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 2420
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:43 pm
Location: East Midlands
Gender:
Age: 79

Re: Are the Police fit for purpose

#31 Post by tango15 » Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:57 am

For a few years I had two bobbies living opposite me, one male, one female. We would chat regularly and they would drop in for a cup of tea. One worked out of Wellingborough (my nearest large town) and the other out of Northampton. Both freely admitted that about 70% of their time was spent in the station behind a computer screen. 'Why so long?' I asked. 'Because we need to find as much information as we can about the felons before we take them to court' was the answer. They reckon that these days they can usually find out more about people on social media than by going round and interviewing them.
Both freely admitted that the police no longer walk the streets. Some towns have PCSOs, but I've never seen any locally. They said that nowadays they only go out from the station if there's a major incident and then they spend a lot of time writing it up afterwards.

Pontius Navigator
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 14669
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:17 am
Location: Gravity be the clue
Gender:
Age: 80

Re: Are the Police fit for purpose

#32 Post by Pontius Navigator » Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:17 am

Just found our Lincolnshire police have a new plan. They won't react to every 101 incident, quel surprise, but will focus on one community priority for 3 months.
We have two: one is cars chewing up a grassed playing area and the other is parking too close to a junction creating a traffic hazard. I think that will win.

User avatar
OFSO
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 18600
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:39 pm
Location: Teddington UK and Roses Catalunia
Gender:
Age: 80

Re: Are the Police fit for purpose

#33 Post by OFSO » Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:23 am

Heard this from a very senior chap in the Federation. Following a raid a number of Volvo automotive engines were recovered and stored on police premises. Months passed. Officer at premises took umbrage. "Get rid of those rusty old engines sarge., they are making the place look untidy." Order passed down and down, finally lowly PC told to get rid of them. Knowing a scrap metal dealer he arranged for engines to be collected and disposed of, duly done. Possibly money changed hands. Three weeks later, station officer was told engines required as evidence in prosecution, so told underling to get them presentable. "But you said... " Answer: "I have no recollection of that." Order to recover engines passed down and down, reached lowly PC. I believe engines were returned from scrap merchant but PC up on a charge of theft of police property.

Boac
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17209
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:12 pm
Location: Here

Re: Are the Police fit for purpose

#34 Post by Boac » Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:55 am

He'll learn!

User avatar
llondel
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5913
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:17 am
Location: San Jose

Re: Are the Police fit for purpose

#35 Post by llondel » Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:38 pm

If it's not in writing it didn't happen. I tell people that when they deal with their local authority on particular mattes that they should decline phone calls and meetings and keep all communication in writing. The number of times it appears that stuff either didn't happen, or people appear to have been at totally different meetings...

User avatar
OFSO
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 18600
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:39 pm
Location: Teddington UK and Roses Catalunia
Gender:
Age: 80

Re: Are the Police fit for purpose

#36 Post by OFSO » Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:38 pm

Unfortunately if you were the Erk at the bottom of the chain of command, it's doubtful you'd pass a request for an order in writing back upward and the consequences if you did might be quite dreadful.

Of course you are right.

Boac
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17209
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:12 pm
Location: Here

Re: Are the Police fit for purpose

#37 Post by Boac » Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:57 pm

As I said, he'll learn!
he consequences if you did might be quite dreadful.
Compared to......?

User avatar
Undried Plum
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 7308
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:45 pm
Location: 56°N 4°W

Re: Are the Police fit for purpose

#38 Post by Undried Plum » Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:54 pm

Pontius Navigator wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:39 am
In Birkenhead we had 3 police forces. Apart from the main police, we had the Mersey Tunnel police, we also had park police. They were probably retired professional police and certainly in Victoria Park they operated out of the Well Lane police station.

In Edinburgh there are three police forces.

There's the Nazional one. Then there's the Transport Polis at Waverley. And there's the Royal Park Constabulary at Holyrood (other side of the road from the pygmy parliament).

I remember the good old days of the City of Edinburgh Police. There were four geographical Divisions, lettered A through D, plus the Traffic guys.

The beat coppers knew every inch of their patrol area. They knew all the faces and many of the names of the inhabitants of their patrol area. They knew who the bad guys were and they knew who the good people were. In the 1950s when domestic telephones weren't yet ubiquitous there were the police boxes that you could go to. As often as not, one of the coppers was having a tea break. The box had a telephone and a kettle and a pissoir and a table and chair. If it was unoccupied there was an external telephone handset which instantly put you through to the local police station as soon as you lifted the handset.

Nowadays the Nazional Polizei are totally hopeless. They have no local focus whatsoever. They only look upward to der Fuhrer, not downward or outward to the proles.

A few years ago I was walking along the Northern coast of the Firth of Forth, a few miles to seaward of the Bridges. At the time I had a pet project to walk the coastline, in stages and over a period of years, from St Abbs to Fifeness. On the rocks about four fifths of the way from HW to the LW tideline I found the dead body of a young woman. For reasons I wont go into, I reckoned she'd been dead for about 6 to 18 hours. I phoned the police and gave them a very accurate description of where I was. There was a derelict WW1 jetty which had been built to support an adjacent coastal battery. It has a very characteristic shape and the police despatcher had a large scale OS map on his computer screen and also had georeferenced aerial imagery "like Google Earth but better". He knew very exactly where I was and I reminded him that LW was due in about 40 minutes and that they'd better get a wiggle on or the body would be swept out to sea by the tide.

I stayed with the body, chasing off the crows and gulls who clearly intended to peck at the poor lassie's open eyes. That was somebody's daughter, grand-daughter or sister and the body would have to be identified. Her eyes were beginning to deteriorate with the very bright sunshine of the hottest day of the year, but were intact when I found her. An hour after my first call I called again and asked them WTF? The despatcher said the they were on their way but were having difficulty finding the locus. Twats!

A few minutes later I got a call from a policewoman who said that she was at the locus and asked if I could see her. No. From her description of her surroundings I realised that she was at a sewage works about half a mile away. When she finally arrived she was soon followed by half a dozen or so colleagues including two or three very senior officers of the scrambled egg variety. I'm not familiar with the epaulette pips and crowns and braid insignia of the cops, but one of them appeared to me to be of Assistant or Deputy Chief Constable rank and another was, I think, a Chief Inspector.

They had come from astonishingly disparate far flung places. The most senior one had travelled from Fettes, the next most senior one had come from Glenrothes and the wumman first responder had come from a village about 20 miles upriver. None of them, even an Inspector who had spent three years as a desk sergeant in the copshop of the local small town, had any idea that the wee abandoned harbour even existed. Of a dozen or so cops, not one of them had any local knowledge whasoever. If a locus doesn't have a postcode and a house number on their computer, they're ****. This was in the days before What3Words.

Later that evening, when I got home, I looked up Google News to see if here was any mention of the matter. There was.

Unknown to me at the time, the previous evening the Polizei Schottland had put out a public appeal for anyone who had seen a young woman who had gone missing. The photo was very clearly the lassie whom I had found. Then I discovered a newer police press release which almost made me throw my whisky glass at the screen. It said that after an extensive search of the countryside the Police had found the body of a young woman whose identity is not yet confirmed. Bastards! Lying toerags!

It turned out that the poor soul had jumped off the Forth Road Bridge. That surprised me as she still had very light slippers on. I had wondered whether she might have been a jumper because I know that the Bridge averages 50 jumpers a year, but I discounted that idea as I presumed that the impact forces of a 200' drop would have ripped those light dancing slippers off. The Bridge, by the way, is festooned with CCTV cameras.

If the police had been competent and diligent, they should have checked that shoreline. They weren't and they didn't. The telling of lies is so much easier for them than getting off their arses and doing some old-fashioned police work.

Pontius Navigator
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 14669
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:17 am
Location: Gravity be the clue
Gender:
Age: 80

Re: Are the Police fit for purpose

#39 Post by Pontius Navigator » Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:44 pm

I can't remember details but I once gave the police an OS grid reference. They had no idea what to do with it.

Another time at an RTA I tried to stop a wooden top trampling his size 10s across some car tracks. I failed. The adult doing the investigation cast his eyes to heaven.

User avatar
ian16th
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 10029
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:35 am
Location: KZN South Coast with the bananas
Gender:
Age: 87

Re: Are the Police fit for purpose

#40 Post by ian16th » Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:24 pm

Pontius Navigator wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:44 pm
I can't remember details but I once gave the police an OS grid reference. They had no idea what to do with it.
I once asked an Estate Agent for the reference of a house he was selling!

Need I say any more?
Cynicism improves with age

Post Reply