Antisemitism.

[barkingmad]

'My son killed himself after circumcision' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-47292307

Not much of a sales pitch for a mostly un-necessary GM?

[Pontius Navigator]

Reading the article I can see that circumcision was necessary.

I had two hospital procedures when I was very young, tonsillectomy and circumcision. I can remember vividly the cot, standing up, the high hospital window with its Victorian style sloping window ledge. I can't remember which op that was for but I think it was the chop.

I seem to remember a tight foreskin. Certainly better without.

[OFSO]

I had the tonsillectomy. I remember the ice cream afterwards. Much later, my very impacted wisdom teeth out, major surgery in an Irish hospital. The Sisters shaved my pubic hair off first. I have no idea why. Ice cream again afterwards.

[Hydromet]

I don't know how it is in the UK. However, in Australia, any criticism of Israel's actions in, say, a letter to a newspaper is immediately met with a coordinated response labelling the writer as prejudiced and anti-semitic. A similar statement by a politician, as we had recently, will have the same result, but is also likely to have the member panned by his own party's leadership.

[AtomKraft]

Hydro.
That's exactly how it is in the UK too.

[Rwy in Sight]

We have to give that Israel operates under in a region / situation with very different SOP hence it needs a bit more understanding and a bit less criticism.

[Pontius Navigator]

Certainty Corbyn can do no right as far as the media make out. Come an election there might be a backlash but are Jews going to vote against Labour when a Jewish candidate is standing?

Are the Jews scattered throughout UK going to be in significant numbers to affect more than a couple of constituencies?

Are allegations of anti-Semitism going to cause Christians to vote against? What of other religions?

If it affects one or two seats in a close run fight maybe but I doubt it.

[AtomKraft]

If the Jews weren't so unpleasant, they'd spend less time complaining about those who complain about them.

Listening to their endless complaints about 'anti semitism', they never seem troubled by where it came from.

[Slasher]

We have to give that Israel operates under in a region / situation with very different SOP hence it needs a bit more understanding and a bit less criticism.

Indeed.

I have to state though when El-Al track down /up the Red Sea (fixed FL290/280 respectively) along the Egypt / Jeddah FIR border going to /from SE Asia, the Saudi ATC ragheads will permit a landing at Wejh or Madinah or Jeddah if ELY is in dire emergency (e.g. uncontrollable engine/cabin fire). What happens to 'em after that I wouldn't know.

[Rwy in Sight]

We have to give that Israel operates under in a region / situation with very different SOP hence it needs a bit more understanding and a bit less criticism.

Indeed.

I have to state though when El-Al track down /up the Red Sea (fixed FL290/280 respectively) along the Egypt / Jeddah FIR border going to /from SE Asia, the Saudi ATC ragheads will permit a landing at Wejh or Madinah or Jeddah if ELY is in dire emergency (e.g. uncontrollable engine/cabin fire). What happens to 'em after that I wouldn't know.

I guess as usual the Yankees would be involved and souls on board and a/c would participate on a Public Relation show on how kind ragheads are.

[Rwy in Sight]

And an afterthought: Israel does serve a very useful purpose keeping bad guys ( definition varies) under control.

[Pontius Navigator]

RiS, probably confined to apron or military escort to holding area.

[AtomKraft]

RiS.
In fact Israel is the **** pivot, upon which our troubles turn.
It generates bad guys, as you call them.

The creation of Israel must rank as the single biggest foreign policy blunder of all time.

It's a giant boil on the arse of mankind, and we'll never sit peacefully until it's lanced.

[Slasher]

Dunno RiS. Wasn't interested in what happens after should a maydaying El Al land, but yes I spose the Yanks and Riyadh would get together in a propaganda fest. The UAE would also jump on the bandwagon somehow to get some positive mileage out of it.

And yes Israel does keep a lid particularly on the expansionist leanings of Iran. The Knesset would be crazy enough to stick a nuke in it and the Iranian govt is well aware of the fact (source: personal listening to M.E. scuttlebutt and my familiarity with the arab respect for strength).

[Capetonian]

Since when was Israel in Europe?

Apparently the Urinevision screeching contest is being held in TLV.
I trust it will be well and truly boycotted.

[BenThere]

In reality Israel generates major advances in science, medicine, defense and other technologies. It's not a boil, it's a blessing.

[Rwy in Sight]

RiS.
In fact Israel is the **** pivot, upon which our troubles turn.
It generates bad guys, as you call them.

The creation of Israel must rank as the single biggest foreign policy blunder of all time.

It's a giant boil on the arse of mankind, and we'll never sit peacefully until it's lanced.

Apologies for just seeing your comment.

As I was explaining to a beautiful and smart journalist ex Israel just protect its interest. I don't remember any significant Israel attacks that can't be classed as retaliatory. Obviously one can argue that Israel retaliation is a bit extreme and not very effective but I guess they know how to perform in that shithole that is most of Middle East.

Capetonian, the Eurovision issue has to do with frequencies or at least I was told that by a former boss of the national TV. I think Morocco and Turkey is a member of the Eurovision

[Pontius Navigator]

RiS, and several FSU States such as Azerbaijan though Ukraine and Bulgaria have with drawn. Turkey and Morocco no longer compete and there are some other European countries that have withdrawn in the past.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurovis ... ntest_2019

[Capetonian]

In reality Israel generates major advances in science, medicine, defense and other technologies.

That is both true and admirable, but does not mitigate their treatment of their neighbours and Arab minorities in Israel.

There was correspondence a few years ago between a South African Muslim lady who complained to Dis-Chem (a large ZA pharmacy) about their stocking of Israeli products, and the MD of Dis-chem in defence.

Without agreeing with all of the ensuing arguments, since there is merit in both sides, here is the correspondence :

SA CEO responds to critics for selling Israeli products, Muslims seethe

Ivan Saltzman, the chief executive of pharmacy giant Dis-Chem, is embroiled in an ugly spat with a Durban woman over the retailer’s decision to sell Israeli-made skin care products.

The spat began when Fathima Moosa visited the Westwood Mall branch of Dischem and noticed that they were selling Dead Sea products made in Israel.

She later submitted an online letter of complaint, asking them to remove the products on the basis that Israel’s “human rights violations replicate Hitler’s Nazism”.

After Dis-Chem’s initial response that the products were not going to be removed, Moosa demanded that her e-mail be forwarded to top management.

Twenty days later, Saltzman responded to her personally, telling her that likening Israel’s supposed human rights violations was a “a scurrilous slur that you have clearly chosen to employ in order to give maximum offence”.

The spat which has since seen the Islamic Media Review Network get involved with an open letter to Saltzman now threatens to turn into boycott of Dis-Chem by pro-Palestinian groups in SA.
========================== Moosa's original email to the website stated:

i visited your store in westwood mall, durban, and noticed that you stock products from Israel. as a south african who lived under oppression, i was very upset to see that your store imports products from a country whose human rights violations replicate hitler's nazism. please consider removing israeli products from your shelves.

Dear Fathima

Thank you for contacting us. I have brought this matter to the attention of one of our Directors who has advised that we will not consider removing the Israeli products from Dis-Chem stores.

Kind regards

Dawn de Klerk
==================================== Moosa responded:

Hi

I am very disappointed by your response.

Please forward this mail to your director, whom I believe is a caring individual. ( I am formerly from Pretoria, and I know that he does a lot of charity).

It is very easy for us to rise to the defense of those who are from our brethren, but the nobler response is to do what's right, even if its the unpopular choice.

The jews of many organisations nationally and internationally have nobly and amazingly distanced themselves from the israeli regime, and have been at the forefront of the call for sanctions against Israel, because of their racist and inhumane policies.

Please google, "nkusa", "young jewish and proud", "rabbis against Israel", Ronnie Kasrils: "not in my name".

Among all these voices, are Nelson Mandela, Desmond Tutu, and many Israeli MPs who urge the world to end the madness.

I hope and trust that your good judgement and commitment to the values enshrined in the Torah, allow you to make the right decision.

Happy is the man who renounces everything that puts a strain on his conscience. After all, we are all the children of Abraham.

Thank you

Fathima Moosa
==================================== And here is CEO Ivan Saltzman's unapolgetic response:

Dear Fatima Moosa

I will begin by answering your likening Israel’s supposed human rights violations to Hitler’s Nazism, a scurrilous slur that you have clear chosen to employ in order to give maximum offense. I think you well know that the crimes of the Nazi regime involved the deliberate mass murder of millions of civilians, largely Jews, as a matter of planned policy. Is this really what Israel is doing. Obviously not – in fact it does completely the opposite. Israel goes to extraordinary lengths to minimize civilian casualties and has been extremely successful in this regard. Palestinian (or for that matter Lebanese) casualties have been a tiny fraction of what they would have been if Israel had truly adopted a Nazi-like extermination policy, given the massive military capability it has at its disposal.

In fact, it is very easy to identify the true modern-day Nazis in the Middle East. They are found in the ranks of such murderous extremist groupings as Hamas, Hezbollah and Palestine Islamic Jihad (amongst others), all of which regard the mass murder of Israeli Jews as the noblest goal their followers can aspire to. Have you ever thought what the consequences would be if Israel were to adopt the same kind of tactics against the Palestinian population? Mass slaughter would indeed ensue, but fortunately Israel, no matter what the provocation, has not nor will not ever stoop to such depths.

So far as your stated intention of boycotting Dis-Chem goes, that is obviously your decision. After all, we do live in a free country. However, if it is your intention to boycott Israeli products, you need to be consistent If your gesture is to have any meaning. I hope you don’t use an intel chip in your computer with which you probably wrote your e-mail because it was invented in Israel. I hope that you stay in good health because if you need preventative surgery against a heart attack, you will have to boycott the procedure because guess what? The stent was invented in Israel! Likewise, I hope you are never prescribed any patch for diabetes, to deliver medication and other drugs. If you are an asthmatic you may have to use a new type of inhaler (Spin) invented in Israel. So please check! Israel has given the world the system of drip irrigation which is being widely adopted in South Africa with water shortages like many countries. Should you boycott all fruit and vegetables grown by this method. The list that Israel has given the world is very lengthy. Check very carefully what you boycott.

You may not have noticed the crisis in the Arab world, “Arab Spring” which now is in Winter with no end in sight. To the best of my knowledge this over human rights but then I have an HD TV which you are probably boycotting. The cheapness of life in Somalia and Sudan is perpetrated by people who you are strongly affiliated to. You obviously don’t know what the racism of Hitler differs very little to Israel’s enemies. Both want the destruction of the Jewish people.

I believe I had to answer your “complaint”. I will continue to sell Dead Sea products from Israel. You know the Dead Sea has two shores. I wonder why the Jordanians or Palestinians (most come from Jordan) do not want to share this wonderful natural resource of the Dead Sea.

I will not respond to any further correspondence on your subject.

Yours faithfully

IVAN SALTZMAN | CHIEF EXCECUTIVE OFFICER
23 Stag Rd, Allandale, Midrand, South Africa
(011) 589-2208
ivan@dischem.co.za

[Rwy in Sight]

RiS, and several FSU States such as Azerbaijan though Ukraine and Bulgaria have with drawn. Turkey and Morocco no longer compete and there are some other European countries that have withdrawn in the past.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurovis ... ntest_2019

You are right about those facts. However I pointed out about non European countries belonging to the Eurovision. Countries do come and go to the contest. Australian has been a contest in the recent years.