Mosque shooting in Christchurch NZ.

[BenThere]

I don't know if 12 Rules for Life is available for free on-line, but I recommend springing for buying a hard copy as you will find yourself flipping back to reread parts, and enjoying it more. It's a book you will want to keep. I still have it handy and pull it out again from time to time. Jordan Peterson has developed a large following of devotées, and there is a broad array of youtube lectures and discussion of his work available, which are free.

[FD2]

Speedy - agree with you about this having gone on too long at too high a pitch. Policewomen should not be making these gestures either.

Nick - I don't follow your point. Do female Muslims go around being disrespectful in churches? There are a bunch of them who have just been 'liberated' from ISIS who have been profoundly disrespectful and I think they will carry on in that manner in the future given half a chance, but they are not exactly a high percentage of the hundreds of millions of Muslim women in the world are they? It used to be required etiquette that Christian women cover their heads in church didn't it?

[Nick Riviera]

Speedy - agree with you about this having gone on too long at too high a pitch. Policewomen should not be making these gestures either.

Nick - I don't follow your point. Do female Muslims go around being disrespectful in churches? There are a bunch of them who have just been 'liberated' from ISIS who have been profoundly disrespectful and I think they will carry on in that manner in the future given half a chance, but they are not exactly a high percentage of the hundreds of millions of Muslim women in the world are they? It used to be required etiquette that Christian women cover their heads in church didn't it?

Don't follow my point? Really? I am astonished that you think there are no instances of Muslims not respecting the culture of countries they have settled in.

[FD2]

I’m astonished that you are treating the matter with such a broad brush! What do you mean by ‘not respecting’ anyway? What form does this disrespect take?

[Boac]

I suspect 'NR' means things like FGM and 'honor killing' and possibly blowing people up, but of course the latter is not solely the prerogative of the Muslim community.

[FD2]

Thanks Boac. A lot of friction has been caused by a succession of spineless UK governments failing to enforce the laws they already have.

FGM - this disgusting practice is against the law but I believe there has only been one conviction in the U.K.

'Honour' killings - if committed in the UK then usual murder penalties apply but this practice isn't confined to Muslims - there are countries in southern Europe where it is standard practice too.

Blowing people up - don't know what a female martyr would expect in heaven - something like 30 Chippendales maybe - but I thought that in the UK this was a male activity.

A lot of what some communities have had to put up with is due to a succession of weak Home Secretaries. There has been too much immigration too fast in many European countries for there to be any chance of meaningful integration.

I would also ban any female clothing which conceals the face but again British Governments have shied away from that, whereas the French and others have enforced their bans on the burqa and its close relations. I have no problem with a scarf across the top of the head like HMQ.

If 'not respecting' means the above then I agree, but I thought 'respect' meant something different. If dressing modestly in public is disrespectful then I disagree - I thought that NR's comment was to do with non-Muslims wearing headscarves here in New Zealand during a multi-faith service. Agree with the point about the policewoman though.

[John Hill]

Don't get me started on FGM when MGM is still accepted.

[FD2]

Oh - and as for Rotherham, Oxford etc., in case male offenders get roped into this, that's again a pathetic case of poor policing, I suspect with the tacit approval of the Home Secretary.

John - it hasn't stopped me having fun - but we know better nowadays than in the 1940s. Male hygiene lessons and HPV vaccinations for both sexes are what's needed.

[ExSp33db1rd]

FD2, thanks for the support and commiserations for your experience in CHCH. Hope you can start to get on with the rest of your Life now !

[FD2]

Thanks Speedy - I just hope that it doesn't stifle free speech on these matters - the overwhelming strength of the response worries me a bit. If it means a little less blind hatred though, then maybe that's no bad thing.

[Nick Riviera]

I’m astonished that you are treating the matter with such a broad brush! What do you mean by ‘not respecting’ anyway? What form does this disrespect take?

No broad brush involved. OK, I'll give you a personal example from last month. I was sitting in the reception area of a building awaiting a meeting when 3 people came in - a man and 2 women wearing niqabs. Signs in the area stated that faces must be uncovered - all motorcycle couriers removed their helmets for example. When the 2 women were asked to uncover their faces the response from the group was appalling. I won't go into all the details but the upshot was that they were removed from the building.

You mentioned that your daughter wore the hijab when the cultural situation demanded it. I think that is a perfectly reasonable and respectful thing to do. My point is that there are too many examples of this same cultural respect not being shown when the boot is on the other foot.

[FD2]

Nick:
In your shoes, having witnessed that incident, I'd also be bloody annoyed. No doubt this is not an isolated incident? You can read my views on the niqab, Rotherham etc. Not having lived in the UK for over 6 years - and before then living in rural areas - I can't speak from personal experience. It's comparing different situations - the level of immigration here and what has been allowed to happen by a series of gutless governments in the U.K. over many years. I do remember being told endlessly by Bliar's bunch that 'diversity is good for the country'. I think that in very small doses it is, from many different cultures and religions - as has happened here in New Zealand where the various immigrant communities are still relatively small and well integrated - so this appalling shooting must not be used as an excuse to change the immigration policy here. I wonder if any E.U./U.K. government will have the balls to get to grips with really bad behaviour. Somehow I think the genie is out of the bottle in the U.K. and much of Europe, but the U.K. government is in complete disarray at present and will be busy with other matters for a long time.

[Nick Riviera]

Can't say I disagree with any of that, FD2.

[Boac]

what a surprise that a far-right group should exist in Austria.

[BenThere]

Actually, conservatives exist everywhere Socialism has been tried.

[FD2]

A few years ago I remember reading the memoirs of the founder of the German Conservative Party, 'Mein Kampf' I think it was called. Maybe it lost some excitement in translation and I found it a boring read, but he went on to do great things in his attempts to change Germany and save it from the local socialists. In fact most of Europe for the better as he and his chums saw it. They had started as a small conservative group reacting to the local socialists. They still have fan clubs all round the world who like to put on gang boy outfits and give silly salutes.

More seriously, it is necessary to steer a course between the extremes of both left and right isn't it?

[Slasher]

The Nazi skinheads of the 70s tried very much the same thing except they were more open with their brutality. Given their collective intelligence it's remarkable they weren't suckered into the left.

[John Hill]

It is unfortunate that this thread devoted to the tragic killings in Christchurch has been diverted.

[ian16th]

It is unfortunate that this thread devoted to the tragic killings in Christchurch has been diverted.

+1

[Boac]

John Hill wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:33 am
It is unfortunate that this thread devoted to the tragic killings in Christchurch has been diverted.

+2