Chaos in the UK

A place to discuss politics and things related to Govts
Message
Author
User avatar
OFSO
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 18600
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:39 pm
Location: Teddington UK and Roses Catalunia
Gender:
Age: 80

Re: Chaos in the UK

#141 Post by OFSO » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:38 am

Yesterday's "Times" business section:

The UK economy is at the optimum rate of 1.5%.
Unemployment is at the lowest since 1974.
Inflation is on target at 2%.
The 40% tax threshold has-been raised to £50000.
The personal allowance on IT has been raised to £12500.
The Deficit is down from 3.8% to 1.1%.

Compare those figures with those of any EU Member State.

User avatar
Fox3WheresMyBanana
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 12986
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:51 pm
Location: Great White North
Gender:
Age: 61

Re: Chaos in the UK

#142 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:49 am

If only the figures were true!*
..or even anything like true.
Still, they are at least better lies than the continentals have, which is your point.

* e.g.
https://www.businessinsider.com/unemplo ... ers-2017-7
https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2013/02/20/ ... inflation/

User avatar
OFSO
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 18600
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:39 pm
Location: Teddington UK and Roses Catalunia
Gender:
Age: 80

Re: Chaos in the UK

#143 Post by OFSO » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:44 am

Surely you are not suggesting that The Thunderer is telling porkies, sir ?

User avatar
Fox3WheresMyBanana
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 12986
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:51 pm
Location: Great White North
Gender:
Age: 61

Re: Chaos in the UK

#144 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:15 am

It is reporting government statistics, which it chooses to accept at face value despite a stack of evidence to the contrary. That makes them either biased, incompetent, or both, but not dishonest. They can't be sued for the first two. ;)))

User avatar
om15
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 7756
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 9:51 pm
Location: Dorset
Age: 71

Re: Chaos in the UK

#145 Post by om15 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:14 am

This morning the Chancellor of the Exchequer Phillip Hammond has announced his resignation, this can only induce us to raise a glass this afternoon, he was completely untrustworthy, his disgraceful lack of support and ant Brexit stance was completely against the Tory Party manifesto. My only regret is not experiencing joy at watching him being fired next week.

So this coming week will see the departure of the Worst Prime Minister in History and the Worst Chancellor in History, (this includes Blair, Brown and the other destructive lefties), so we must rejoice at this, might we be turning the corner.

I have express reservations about Boris, lets see if he can pull it off, if he can't Nigel will.

Pontius Navigator
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 14669
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:17 am
Location: Gravity be the clue
Gender:
Age: 80

Re: Chaos in the UK

#146 Post by Pontius Navigator » Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:12 pm

Which brings to mind a theatre comedy:

Boris (Daisy) pulls it off.

User avatar
Fox3WheresMyBanana
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 12986
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:51 pm
Location: Great White North
Gender:
Age: 61

Re: Chaos in the UK

#147 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:47 pm

Jared O'Mara, so-called MP for Sheffield Hallam, has had his comms team resign via his twitter account.
It's the usual PR technique of pretending there isn't a problem ;)))

Image
Image

I do wish they'd stop fence-sitting and say what they really think.
More here:
https://order-order.com/2019/07/23/jare ... qus_thread

User avatar
llondel
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5913
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:17 am
Location: San Jose

Re: Chaos in the UK

#148 Post by llondel » Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:58 am

The amusing thing is that it's still there 9 hours later. My guess is that his former comms manager is the only one with the password to the account and knows how to get access to it.

AtomKraft
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 2549
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:05 am
Location: Planet Claire
Gender:
Age: 63

Re: Chaos in the UK

#149 Post by AtomKraft » Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:26 am

Brilliant. Must be **** being a lefty these days.

Rejected, hated and unwanted.

User avatar
llondel
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5913
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:17 am
Location: San Jose

Re: Chaos in the UK

#150 Post by llondel » Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:59 pm

It did finally get taken down, although I'm sure lots of people have screenshots of the whole thing.

User avatar
OFSO
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 18600
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:39 pm
Location: Teddington UK and Roses Catalunia
Gender:
Age: 80

Re: Chaos in the UK

#151 Post by OFSO » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:05 pm

What is the solution to fractionism in politics ? Leaders trying to offer all things to all men and more especially, lots of small groupings, and ending up satisfying nobody and getting nothing done. Saw it with the unlamented May, now seeing it in Spain. Italy been like that for years of course. Is the American system of having two parties the answer ? Personally I never thought so but now I am beginning to wonder...

User avatar
Fox3WheresMyBanana
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 12986
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:51 pm
Location: Great White North
Gender:
Age: 61

Re: Chaos in the UK

#152 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:00 pm

This situation is worldwide.
One problem is that not enough of the electorate care enough about politics, and either haven't the ability or the understanding to look to at least the medium term.
The majority vote for whoever will most benefit them economically, unless there is a crisis for themselves or the country as a whole. In those cases they vote for the legislative change or government action which they hope will best resolve that crisis. That hope is often rooted in ideology and not careful analysis.
A second problem is the power of parties. The vast majority will not vote for an independent no matter how bad the party candidates are. Unless, again, there's a crisis. Most independents get in on the back of a threatened hospital closure or suchlike.
In some ways, this is nobody's fault. The national and world populations and systems are staggeringly large and complex. It's almost impossible to find a way through, pretty much everyone with the wit to do it doesn't go into politics or have anything to do with politicians, and the politicians and the electorate fall back on ideology or basic human nature. The next election is a long way off, the world could change drastically, so most vote for money now. A bird in the hand. All this is nothing new, and you can read Aristotle's Politics and find the same themes.
https://socialsciences.mcmaster.ca/econ ... litics.pdf
And as the system gets more complex, it becomes easier to blame other factors for the failures of ideology rather than the basic tenets of the ideology, so there is a tendency for ideologies to become more entrenched, and society more fractionalised.

Dominic Cummings, who yesterday was Boris's first appointment, to a Senior Adviser position, wrote a paper in 2013 on education to produce more intelligent thinkers and alter political priorities. It starts out on just these points. I've only just started reading it, but it begins with a discussion as to why humans are not good at analysing complexity, rooted in education. Be warned, it's 237 pages long. I will get through it in a week and summarise if you like. Even if I think he's wrong, I suspect it will be worth knowing where the guy who's whispering in Boris's ear is coming from.
https://dominiccummings.files.wordpress ... -final.pdf

What all the above leads to is small corrections and changes to basically buy votes or pander to vocal minorities, rather than any holistic thinking or long term planning. Unfortunately this approach, coupled with most of the government being a bureaucracy, means a huge inertia that keeps any country on the same path, even when it becomes the wrong one. Big changes, when they are made, tend to be made for the wrong reasons. And all the time the inertia increases as more laws are passed than repealed, and the expense of administering and policing those laws increases.
There is no happy ending to this within the current system. The increasing inertia and cost of government and its policies, and over-regulation, inevitably cause economic collapse. The only question is when. Can the system be changed? I don't know. I plan for the worst and hope for the best, as ever.

AtomKraft
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 2549
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:05 am
Location: Planet Claire
Gender:
Age: 63

Re: Chaos in the UK

#153 Post by AtomKraft » Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:30 pm

Governments just manage the consensus. Change is the last thing they want.

Brexit IS democracy. A rare thing these days, and very uncomfortable for our wankerish 'politicians'.

Interesting to watch, for sure.

Pontius Navigator
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 14669
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:17 am
Location: Gravity be the clue
Gender:
Age: 80

Re: Chaos in the UK

#154 Post by Pontius Navigator » Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:17 pm

Thatcher managed to implement some considerable changes. Poll tax was her failure. It promised/threatened to proportion community charges to let capita rather than per house. You council tenant was up in arms at the idea of paying more with several wage earners in a small house compared to two pensioners in a large one.

It seemed fairer than rates, but once the media dubbed it a poll tax it was doomed.

User avatar
Fox3WheresMyBanana
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 12986
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:51 pm
Location: Great White North
Gender:
Age: 61

Re: Chaos in the UK

#155 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:51 pm

Indeed, the previous poll tax leading to the Peasants' Revolt.

BenThere
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 3804
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:54 am
Location: Michigan/Quintana Roo
Gender:
Age: 72

Re: Chaos in the UK

#156 Post by BenThere » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:15 pm

But really, are minor tax issues worthy of driving the ship of state? UK still has a major role in steering the ship of humanity. Step up to it as you always have! We're still counting on you!

User avatar
llondel
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5913
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:17 am
Location: San Jose

Re: Chaos in the UK

#157 Post by llondel » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:28 am

If they'd pitched up a local income tax instead, so it was related to ability to pay rather than mere existence then it might have worked. I'd say they should pretty much cut central government funding to councils, drop income tax by the amount saved and then allow councils to levy local income tax instead. It could probably be implemented quite easily through existing income tax collection methods. Then if you've got a high-spending council, those who 'benefit' from it have a direct input into the rate.

User avatar
barkingmad
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5497
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:13 pm
Location: Another Planet
Gender:
Age: 75

Re: Chaos in the UK

#158 Post by barkingmad » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:30 am

A possible few reasons why the current system is so horribly inefficient?

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/hm ... 68591.html

User avatar
barkingmad
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5497
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:13 pm
Location: Another Planet
Gender:
Age: 75

Re: Chaos in the UK

#159 Post by barkingmad » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:41 am

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/ ... s-tax-disc

I hope whomsoever signed off this cr*p idea has been made redundant pronto?

And that report is from nearly 3 years ago!!

User avatar
Fox3WheresMyBanana
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 12986
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:51 pm
Location: Great White North
Gender:
Age: 61

Re: Chaos in the UK

#160 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:09 am

I looked around in 2012(?) when someone told me that Traffic Wardens were no longer able to issue tickets for non-display of tax discs. Of the 38 motorcycles I checked, 36 did not have tax discs. The situation is now such that it doesn't make economic sense for anyone in the UK to tax, MoT, or insure a cheap vehicle.
The HMRC is in meltdown thanks to outsourcing. I am still awaiting a reply letter that was promised 5 years ago, and they ignore my complaints letters also. They are also conducting what amounts to extortion on monies they have no jurisdiction over, and even trying to backdate changes in the law. Read any international professional tax blog and you will see many more examples.

Post Reply