Getting hot in the Gulf

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Personally I regard this as the consequence of all the cuts to the Royal Navy, for which the UK politicians bear sole responsibility. And I mean all of them, given they've all followed the same policies when they've had a taste of power over the last 30 years. British-flagged vessels have a right to be protected by the Andrew from threats which were made crystal clear some time ago. That the Iranians have grabbed a British-flagged vessel was as certain as the Sun rising this morning.

[FD2]

Yes - just what were Stena expecting might happen? It's not as if the situation wan't very clear. Did the captain take the initiative himself? I think Stena's control centre would have known where all their ships were at the time, especially any of them near Hormuz.

The vexed questions about the rundown of Britain's armed forces continue to be asked. I find it exasperating that the country gives money away to, for example India, which is busy planning a mission to the Moon. Also some pretty dodgy countries around the World, while failing to ensure the security of its own people at home and abroad. Both left and right wing governments are to blame and neither can point the finger at the other.

If Hammond and his fellow travellers f**k things up enough to force a general election, then I dread to think what will happen in Corbyn gets in! Sorry about the slight drift.

[Rwy in Sight]

I am very surprised it was not being escorted.

Plenty of ships did not bother to arrange escort off the Horn of Africa and risked being taken over by pirates.

FD2 kindly help me understand with the following:

The Stena Impero's owners would seem to be solely responsible for this state of affairs and have made the UK government look fools in the face of Iranian aggression - not that hard to do these days - after the highly embarrassing capture and display of RN people a few years ago

Do you mean SI did all the mistakes it is being accused of?

[FD2]

The fact that other shipping companies are doing it is not relevant and this area is not comparable to the Horn of Africa and its pirates.
Anyone with any sense could see that sending a British flagged ship into that area without an escort was foolish to say the least, bearing in mind the UK is holding an Iranian tanker and the Iranians have already made an attempt at seizing another British ship.
Either the captain took the decision himself without telling the owners - bad control by the owners - or
Stena took the decision to allow it, in which case yes - it is certainly at fault for the seizure of this ship.
So yes, I do see Stena as being to blame. Who else might be?

Stena are certainly not responsible, of course, for the seizure of the RN/RM personnel a few years ago - that was solely a British f**k up.

[Undried Plum]

Blethers emanating from the fugly building in Lime Street indicate that Stena Impero pissed the local maritime authorities off by cutting across the bows of heavily laden outbound traffic which was leaving the Hormuz TSS, and then compounded that by cutting the NE corner of the separation zone a bit fine.



Rather unwise, most especially as the Iranians had already made it very clear that they felt obliged to reciprocate the Brits capturing an Iranian tanker by armed military assault.

Now that each has a bargaining chip, albeit a bit lop-sided as the cargo which is absent from one would be worth a hell of a lot more than the market value of both ships combined, the sensible thing for both sides to do is to release the respective vessels and to publicly commit to Free Trade by both words and deeds.

When the Iranians declare that they intend to reciprocate wrongdoings by UKUSA, they are never bluffing. Surely PA103 must have taught us that.

[FD2]

By 'anyone with any sense' I was referring to the ship's owners/operators and any others who may be sending British flagged ships through Hormuz still.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Both left and right wing governments are to blame

When was the last right wing UK government, judging by its actions? Thatcher, I think.

[FD2]

They may fight each other for the 'centre ground' these days and steal each other's policies, but the Conservatives are still 'fascists' aren't they? Nearly fellow travellers with Adolf if we believe some people.

[Undried Plum]

the Iranians have already made an attempt at seizing another British ship.

Oh really?

When/where was that?

There is zero evidence that any attempt to seize British Heritage ever happened. The story was a successful propaganda ploy to raise even more money for the RN to buy even more war canoes. Dutifully, the Foreign Secretary, who has a personal political agenda of his own at the moment, promised to send more warships to the Gulf and to fund the acquisition of even more destroyers.

Nothing that we are doing at the moment is in any way intended to allow Iran any peace. Our siege warfare against them is backed up by extremely brutal force being threatened against Iran bu the usual suspects. There are very old agendas being pursued against the people of Iran and against their pesky democracy. UKUSA has old scores to settle with Iran which go back several generations.

[Undried Plum]

When was the last right wing UK government, judging by its actions? Thatcher, I think.

Blair.

He was a second rater, whom even the Bullers would touch, but he was Fettesian of their ilk.

[FD2]

So the other ship 'Mesdar' that was intercepted and released the same day was just a figment of someone's imagination? Presumably of no interest as it is Liberian registered, according to the Guardian, Telegraph etc etc.

I expect the boats which were buzzing around the British Heritage were just out for a jolly - not the Revolutionary Guards at all but innocent ship spotters?

[Undried Plum]

Mesdar cut that corner even more than the Stena guy did.

That's why she was pulled over by the cops and given a talking to.

Difference between Mesdar and Stena Impero? A red duster, that's all.

[Undried Plum]

I expect the boats which were buzzing around the British Heritage were just out for a jolly - not the Revolutionary Guards at all but innocent ship spotters?

If the Pasdaran were not patrolling their home waters adjacent to those islands, now that really would be news!

[Pontius Navigator]

Blair.

Clearly a wanker, look at his right hand.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Blair wasn't, and isn't, left or right wing. He isn't even a politician. He just went into politics because he thought (correctly) he could make more dosh than doing something like PR. Then Cameron got the hint and switched from PR to PM.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

BA suspends flights to Cairo for 7 days - unsafe. Sounds like there's a airline bombing or hijacking threat.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/0 ... -concerns/
BA say they are still assessing the threat.

[FD2]

Plum - is that something the local Pasdaran (Revolutionary Guards) do often? Taking control of ships and giving the captains a bollocking? Do they have recognised powers of arrest and the ability to fine or imprison the ships' captains? - in which case I'm sure they will have records of the bad boys cutting the corners to prove their case.

I don't believe either of the unimpressive candidates for Number 10 will shove any more money towards the armed forces - it's just election soapbox stuff - so Montrose's crying wolf and conducting a local 'propaganda ploy' was all in vain. Those boys we see in their speedboats zooming around had no intention other than advising the British Heritage captain of the local rules of the road?

[Rwy in Sight]

F3WMB I am surprised that only BA flights are affected and not others UK carriers.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

There seem to be three possible options
1) Only BA has been told what the threat is
2) The threat is vague enough that others are not being as cautious as BA
3) The threat is specifically against BA.

I understand only BA and Egypt Air fly direct London-Cairo.

Option 3 would seem most likely. A wild guess would be it's because BA is the UK national flag carrier, and certain nation(s) who sponsor terrorism would like something symbolically newsworthy to happen around now.
Cui Bono?

[Rwy in Sight]

I was out with a beer buddy and I couldn't write properly from my mobile. Regarding point three I am surprised the analysis/threat goes to that level. As far the connection of BA and UK, may I point to the unfortunate Russinn A321 that was destroyed over the Sinai Russian aircraft but not Aeroflot.

And may I remind here the story about the BA FE wife who was concerned about her husband was flying to the Gulf during the pre GWI days and she rang the FO for advice to be told that BA flies there so it is safe.