Chaos in USA

[boing]

I'm unbeatable at that technique, I get plenty of practice with my wife.

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[OFSO]

How dare you be so unparliamentary with me, Sir !

[boing]

One thing Americans are amazed by is the unruly activity in the HoC.

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[Alisoncc]

One thing Americans are amazed by is the unruly activity in the HoC.

That's because you are not allowed to carry in the Chamber.

[OFSO]

This guy Floyd that got necked.....Is it true than at some hours before his demise he was arrested for holding a knife at the throat of a NR woman who may or may not have been pregnant with his child and was not a million miles completely different to the 'wife' interviewed on TV as the father of the daughter which she had ?

[ExSp33db1rd]

Just read that 57 members of the Buffalo P.Dept. have resigned in support of two of their mates suspended following that incident where a guy in a blue shirt was knocked down - or tripped whilst walking backwards ? - and left bleeding on the ground, and is now in critical state in hospital.

Regardless of the "real" story, of the action, it seems a bit insensible to leave him bleeding ?

Just sayin'. I wasn't there.

[prospector]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... protesters

Just trying to get racial equality, just like these people did.

[llondel]

One thing Americans are amazed by is the unruly activity in the HoC.

That's because you are not allowed to carry in the Chamber.

In context, note the presence of the two red lines down either side of the central aisle in the Commons. Members are supposed to stand behind the lines, which are far enough apart to stop two people with swords hurting each other. It was King Edward II who banned weapons and armour from being worn by members of Parliament back in 1313, so this may be coincidence rather than for any other reason. In theory MPs aren't permitted to wear bullet-proof vests in the Commons either, because that could be considered armour.

[PHXPhlyer]

The 57 resigned from the emergency response team only, not the department. Said to be a ploy by the police union. Union said that would not support any officers who would not resign.

PP

[llondel]

The Buffalo mayor said on live TV that the union in question was one of the biggest obstacles to reform of the police in the city.

[Seenenough]

The Buffalo mayor said on live TV that the union in question was one of the biggest obstacles to reform of the police in the city.

Democrat Mayors are very good at blaming others for the problems that their cities have developend under their "leadership".

[BenThere]

The current buzz to defund the police departments in our crime-ridden, Democrat-run major cities, is insanity. The people who benefit are the criminals and the prisoners let go. The people hurt are those trying to make a living and get by with a working ethic, holding their families together, and providing the best hope for urban America.

[llondel]

I assume the defunding is intended to stop them buying military hardware with the excess cash instead of paying reasonable wages. What will happen is that they'll still buy all the expensive hardware and cut back on payroll.

[llondel]

The Buffalo mayor said on live TV that the union in question was one of the biggest obstacles to reform of the police in the city.

Democrat Mayors are very good at blaming others for the problems that their cities have developend under their "leadership".

I don't know the electoral history of the area, but I suspect it's been building for decades. NYPD seems a bit suspect too, and that's the product of administrations from both sides. Police should be accountable for their use of power. Benefit of the doubt is OK in some situations but too many times they resort to violence before all peaceful options have been tried. There's the classic video of UK police dealing with a crazy guy wielding a machete and they eventually take him down without the need for firearms although I expect there was an armed officer there just in case. While they're definitely not perfect, UK police are way more accountable to the people than US police, and perhaps the US could learn from that. If there's a complaint, it's referred to an independent body, which appoints a different police force to investigate if that's considered necessary, so it's not the locals closing ranks around one of their own.

[Seenenough]

The mosts powerful Law Enforcement Officer in any US County is the Sheriff who is an elected official.

[boing]

This is a considerable more complicated situation than it appears at first glance. Defunding the police is certainly not the way to go since it reduces manpower and training.

Example, some cities or States operate late night patrol cars with one officer others use two. Seems like a good cost saving approach to use one officer but now think about what happens in the case of a nighttime traffic stop. If some one is driving dangerously there is a strong probability that the driver is drunk, drugged or possibly ill, it could of course just be a couple of stupid kids. If there is only one officer he stops the car but then he must get out of his car and approach the driver, it's dark and he can't see at this point how many occupants are in the car or what the driver is doing so he needs to be very careful, there is a good chance the driver is not thinking correctly, the driver or the passenger may be armed. I assure you, solo night traffic stop can be a hairy experience so is it surprising that the officer puts his hand on his gun and looks for the slightest sign of aggression? The smart routine if you are the driver is to sit quietly with your hands visible on the wheel, reach for the glove box or under your seat and the odds of a nasty incident go up dramatically.

Now, if you have two officers they can make the approach tactically, for example, one on each side of the car. That way a driver thinking of violence knows that if he shoots at one officer the other is ready to engage and the driver can't watch both officers at the same time so he is unlikely to take the chance. The second officer is also very useful to keep an eye on things if there are also other passengers in the car.

So there it is. Defunding police saves money and it plays to the minority voters but it also increases the chance of more accidental "police violence" in traffic stops gone wrong and other areas which cost the city millions of dollars in riot damage.

A comment on the military hardware, it is usually free. A list of surplus equipment is circulated to government agencies and the agencies can then request the items on the list. A very popular item is the "Conex" boxes - the large steel shipping containers.

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[FD2]

Honour among thieves? This poor, half starved man was robbed of his well deserved reward by some mean spirited folk who also wanted it.

The cops should treat these people with their usual levels of aggression, but ease up on the peaceful ones. Training cops properly might also help.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... tolen.html

[Rwy in Sight]

Honour among thieves? This poor, half starved man was robbed of his well deserved reward by some mean spirited folk who also wanted it.

The cops should treat these people with their usual levels of aggression, but ease up on the peaceful ones. Training cops properly might also help.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... tolen.html

Why did he bother to protect his loot and didn't go to get another one? Also how the two "stage two' looters are going to share the computer?

Seriously know I am still surprised when good cause offers opportunity for looting and violence - as if cops and ruined shop owners will vote to change the laws and persuade people to be friendly to the cause of the looters.

[BenThere]

boing,

I don't like single officer patrols, either. Any savings pale in comparison to the risks, especially in a tough neighborhood.

In my jurisdiction the police are fairly well paid, with a journeyman officer making a solid middle to upper-middle class income along with a cushy retirement and benefits package that is fully vested in 30 years or less, lesser vested at 20 years, much like the US military.

I thought the DC mayor's decision to use the National Guard's 5,000 troops to help protect the nation's capitol, but not allow them to be armed utterly foolish.

[llondel]

The mosts powerful Law Enforcement Officer in any US County is the Sheriff who is an elected official.

That's County though, not city (or college even). As we've seen though, the official body tends to immediately support the officers and have had to retract their initial statements when the videos have been put on YouTube and the media. The procedure should be to suspend the offices concerned, initially on full pay, so an investigation can be carried out, stating no more than an incident has been reported and is under investigation (i.e. neutral), and then take further action as more evidence either way comes to light. It is to the benefit of the police on the front line to do it that way too, if the local population knows that things will be done in a fair an transparent manner and those who overstep the line will be punished appropriately then they're more likely to respect the police which will make the job of law enforcement easier.

This is probably one for the trivia thread, but does anyone know the origin of the word "sheriff"?