Chaos in USA

[boing]

Well John, I know you are fairly isolated and it probably takes a while to get the news but it may surprise you to know that Singapore, Australia, America and even New Zealand are considered to be fairly wealthy and advanced nations with India moving rapidly to join the club. These countries all have different political systems but until recently they were considered to be relative beacons of democracy and freedom.

South Africa and the other African nations are problematic. Rhodesia, Kenya, Uganda and South Africa were potential members of the above group but tribalism and extreme dictatorships cause me to remove them from the list. South Africa is possibly a 50/50 member but it is going to take a while for it to prove it has renounced the horrific dictatorships that have ruled there.

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[John Hill]

You will be pleased to know that I picked up another bottle washed up on the beach this morning so I am now well up to date with world affairs.

The East Asia bottle has still not arrived so I must confess I am not right up to date with respect to Singapore however I can tell you that Australia, North America (both halves), New Zealand and India have all reached their present stage of development only after decades of post-colonial progress.

India especially was held down and raped by Britain for a couple of hundred years and millions of their population are still suffering the effects.

None of these ex-colonies can point to a virtuous establishment and development and there can be no doubt that being colonized by the Poms was never a good thing to happen to any peoples.

[boing]

I know that it's really terrible John, I am sure they would have preferred the Germans, Portuguese, Spanish or French as tutors or even the Japanese. Let's face it, the English did nothing but build schools, railways and ports, introduce machinery, remove murderous rulers and fight diseases -- a pretty pathetic record.


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[John Hill]

Whataboutery is a very poor argument.

[prospector]

JH.
Tell us your take on the success of Zimbabwe since independence, or in fact any of the African countries who have since gained independence. That is the common people, not the politicians.

[John Hill]

I know you are just itching to tell us about Zimbabwe so go ahead and please show how your comments might relate anything I have posted here.

[prospector]

You said "None of these ex-colonies can point to a virtuous establishment and development and there can be no doubt that being colonized by the Poms was never a good thing to happen to any peoples."

I gave you an example that I would have thought shows the stupidity of your statement. There were many improvements in many peoples lives at the time of these vast improvements in the art of civilized living introduced by the English. Even in this country, New Zealand, to get rid of tribal warfare certainly improved the lot of the locals.

[Undried Plum]

[boing]

Thanks for the Monty Python UP.
One of the things that struck me as strange when I started flying with a US airline was the quite frequent quotes from MP. Generally MP is way out of line with the average American humour but the pilots were a different group. Amazing number of quotes about how much weight an African swallow could lift, dead parrots and this being the abuse department, arguments are in 12A.

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[Dushan]

Hopefully the result of the Governors election in Virginia is an indication of things to come in America, and also the election of the Lt Governor. That should hopefully shut up a lot of this racist crap, but then again maybe not.

Nah, they are just doubling down. Apparently Sears is a "white supremacist".

[John Hill]

You said "None of these ex-colonies can point to a virtuous establishment and development and there can be no doubt that being colonized by the Poms was never a good thing to happen to any peoples."

I gave you an example that I would have thought shows the stupidity of your statement.

No you didn't, you brought up Zimbabwe.

There were many improvements in many peoples lives at the time of these vast improvements in the art of civilized living introduced by the English. Even in this country, New Zealand, to get rid of tribal warfare certainly improved the lot of the locals.

Tribal warfare was at it's deadliest when the newcomers introduced muskets.

[prospector]

It was not the muskets that incited the tribal warfare, it was the intent of the people arming themselves with them, and the desire to have as many slaves from neighbouring tribes as possible.

[John Hill]

It was not the muskets that incited the tribal warfare, it was the intent of the people arming themselves with them, and the desire to have as many slaves from neighbouring tribes as possible.

It was the availability of muskets that led to the wars being so deadly and it was the arrival of europeans which brought the muskets. But I am sure that the traders had the very best intentions when they handed over the muskets.

[John Hill]

NZ Maoris like indigenous people across the world suffered death and loss of land and resources when the English came to stay.

[boing]

This is getting tiresome John. Death and loss of land has been taking place since the beginning of recorded history and, I am sure before that, despite the fact that the population of the World was minuscule at the time. Simply look at your Utopia of North Korea, tell me who actually, genuinely, owns property in their own name and explain why people are dying so that the country can develop a nuclear programme that is ineffectual and 20 years behind the bigger players. Look at how much that country and its population would benefit from a good invasion, it could hardly get worse.

You really need to get out into the World. I have had Ugandans and Indians tell me how much better their countries were under colonial rule. Is Hong Kong better off under its ancient rulers than it was under the British?

You are tied into a fantasy of claptrap where good and bad are defined by race instead of reality. I am sure that the Bogga Wogga were happier living with famine, constant fighting with local enemies, endemic disease, water shortage, human sacrifice and rulers who executed at a whim.

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[Undried Plum]

You really need to get out into the World.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't that why he's in New **** Zealand, for **** sake?

[boing]

Not sure what you are saying UP but, apart from his visit to his much praised North Korea, I do not see that John has any worthwhile practical experience of anywhere else in the World other than New Zealand. I may be wrong but, based on his posts, I have probably visited New Zealand more times than he has left it excluding his sojourns to North Korea.

What is your position, tell us in simple words, yes/no will do.
Was Rhodesia better off under Mugabe?
Was Uganda better off under Idi Amin?
Was South Africa better off under Mandela (and wife)?
Is Hong Kong better off under the Chinese?
Is Burma better off under military rule?

In any country there will, unfortunately, be some sort of hierarchy established, the consideration is the difference between the hierarchy and the common man. Certain countries such as Singapore, India, Vietnam and Taiwan managed the transition from colonialism to self rule successfully (if not without some pain) but look at the others on my list, great potential wasted under incompetent national rulers.

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[Undried Plum]

Wow!

How did did Humanity ever get by until colonialism?

How did we ever survive without eachother?

Where was the invention of Clutch?

[John Hill]

Wow!
How did did Humanity ever get by until colonialism?

Take the English for example, living in mud huts and painting their faces blue until the Romans killed a lot of them and showed the survivors a better way.

[Undried Plum]

Tattoos.
fris'emamplme?

We do tattoose in Embra, ye ken.

Oh Yayhae.

Hard to explain, but we do.