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About 3,000 deaths recorded after 9/11 and look where that took us?

These statistics put that casualty count into perspective, or maybe not.

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

Discussion topic?

Note the concentration of "gun violence" in Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago and the North East in general, all areas with extreme gun control laws. Note the relative lack of "gun violence" in the areas traditionally supporting firearms ownership, the "cowboy" states, Idaho, Montana, the Dakotas, NW Texas, Eastern Oregon, Nevada.

Whatever your personal opinion it is obvious that present approaches are not working.

No one wants to touch the underlying cause of the violence, lax enforcement, political correctness, drug crime and gangs.


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Erewego again ! !

Texas Walmart shooting: El Paso gun attack leaves 20 dead https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49221936

"When will they ever learn.......?"

Erewego again!!

Only this time it's Ohio.

https://m.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Break ... led-597583

Something quite odd is happening as I understand both of those states are of Rethuglican persuasion.

Eight people shot dead in Baltimore...this week.
That's a normal week.
Twelve shot dead in Chicago last week (latest figures)
That's a normal week.
Etc.
The Ohio shooting was after someone was reportedly refused entry to a bar in the rough end of town at 1am Saturday night. One suspects drink and/or drugs may be more likely involved than some political agenda.

Ohio and Texas have the death penalty and have used it during the last 5 years. Here's to another couple.

Not much point killing the Ohio shooter again.

The real tragedy is that when these slaughters take place, we tend to think, as above :
"Erewego again!! Only this time it's Ohio....."
and then just move on, it is barely newsworthy.

I am a firm believer in the death penalty for such acts, not as a 'punishment' nor even as a deterrent, because it isn't, but simply to remove permanently these people from the face of the earth and to ensure zero possibility of recurrence.

Until the causes of crime, lack of opportunity, lack of education, free access to guns, and marginalisation of some sectors of the community are removed, these acts will continue. Ergo, they will continue. For ever.

I actually agree with Capetonian

The causes of crime you list are applicable to States in the US where there is little or no gun control, and there has never been a mass shooting*. Quite probably the biggest problems with shootings in the US are two-fold - No one is prepared to do an unbiased assessment of the problem, and no politician is prepared to act on what is found.

The single most common factor in US mass shootings* is that the shooter(s) target somewhere which is a gun-free zone. They know no member of the public can shoot back. The 'Batman' movie killer drove past 11 cinemas closer to his home to reach one which was a gun-free zone.

*I am excluding domestic shootings since they have different causes.

Agree completely with Cape's assessment. I really don't care. I approve of people being allowed to carry hand guns, but not of people being allowed hunting and automatic weapons. Side effect of the gun culture in a violent unbalanced society like the USA is frequent mass shootings. So what...

( Would I be content to live in the USA ? Yes. Would these massacres deter me ? Nope.)

Now aporoaching 9k deaths in USA as a result of such shhotings this year alone. Nothing will change though.

However, NYC on 9/11 saw approx 3k deaths and we all remember the reaction and the thousands of "furrinersx" killed & injured in revenge military invasions.

Can't help thinking something's not quite right.

And now Uncle Sam is talking to the Taliban again.

Last time it was in Berlin summer 2000 and we all know what followed......

The vast majority of deaths are suicides or gangland killings, neither of which are the least bit affected by gun control.
The suicide rate is interesting. It is frequently lumped into firearm deaths by gun control advocates. However, comparing the UK, Canada, the USA and Australia, one can see that the banning of guns (Australia) does reduce firearm suicides quite considerably, but in the medium term it has made no difference to the suicide rate overall. Men just find another way of killing themselves, generally hanging (it's almost always men who commit firearm suicides). All gun control does is cause more pain to suicides.

Shootings so far this month in Chicago? 50
and we are only halfway through the 4th. 4 dead, 38 injured.
Chicago has about the most restrictive gun laws in the US.
Want to guess how many of those shootings were by licensed gun owners?
7 people shot in one incident this morning. It's not a "mass shooting" solely because so many shooters in Chicago are terrible shots.
Police have made no arrests.
The homicide clearance rate in Chicago for the first half of last year (most up to date figures I can find) was 15.4%. 5 out of 6 murderers don't get caught.
The clearance rate for non-fatal shootings was 5.6%
And it ain't getting better

If the yanks can't be bothered doing anything about it, why should anyone else worry?

One thing most non-Americans fail to consider is the sheer size of the country, not that this is an excuse but it is part of the explanation why murders are sometimes not viewed as seriously as they should be.

When a murder is committed in Chicago it will be reported in Los Angeles - but - Los Angeles is about 1750 miles from Chicago, not exactly a local event. This is like a murder in North Africa, Turkey or beyond Moscow being expected to get people in London up in arms.

I am not saying that this is the only cause of complacency but if you consider the distances involved you can see that the crime will not be treated as seriously as one taking place next door. Now, many of the ones that do take place "next door" often take place in areas where the local residents are likely to respond "not surprised" because the area is likely notorious for violence.

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El Paso and Dayton: Two mass shootings - Will anything change? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49229654

Fair enough comment despite its source?

boing wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:10 am

One thing most non-Americans fail to consider is the sheer size of the country, not that this is an excuse but it is part of the explanation why murders are sometimes not viewed as seriously as they should be.

Not a non-American thing, more of a UK thing.

Many UK friends have been surprised when I have pointed out that Capetown to Joburg is about the same distance as London to Vienna!

Trump comes under criticism from Democrats in wake of two mass shootings Opponents accuse US president of stoking racial divisions as authorities investigate El Paso attack as hate crime

Irish Times

The usual placatory comments.

Speaking to reporters at the airport in Morristown, New Jersey, after spending the weekend at his golf resort nearby, Mr Trump said: “Hate has no place in our country, and we’re going to take care of it.”

In his first public comments on the shootings, he said he had spoken to the FBI, attorney general William Barr and members of Congress about what can be done to prevent such violence, adding “we have to get it stopped”.

But he offered no specifics, except to say he would make a statement on Monday morning.

Mr Trump did not address accusations by critics about his anti-immigrant and racially charged rhetoric, though he earlier called the El Paso shooting an “an act of cowardice”.