Chaos in USA

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Fox3WheresMyBanana
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Re: Chaos in USA

#3141 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:10 am

Cheney got the boot, I see
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/wi ... -november/
It’s likely Cheney as well as the nine other Republicans who voted to impeach Trump knew their vote was a potentially risky move for their political careers. But in January 2021, few would have predicted that only two would survive their primaries.
="few of the other raving lefties like me I exclusively talk to". Everyone on the Right thought it was a racing certainty.
In fact, not a single pro-impeachment Republican captured a majority of the GOP primary vote. This amounts to an especially weak set of performances for incumbents, who in most cases easily win their primaries.
Which is, I imagine, why the Dems are absolutely desperate to get Trump disqualified for 2024, and I don't think the Jan 6th Committee is going to have any more success that the previous two impeachments.

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Re: Chaos in USA

#3142 Post by llondel » Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:55 pm

Cheney losing might come back to bite the GOP though, she's in a position to attract all the non-Trump Republicans now, especially if she were to run for the top job in 2024 outside the Republican framework and split the vote. I think she'd do it knowing that it would likely give the Democrats victory because stopping Trump would be more important to her as a short-term goal.

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Re: Chaos in USA

#3143 Post by boing » Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:39 pm

What no Democrats are seriously considering is the stubborn kick-back against the "block Trump by any means" campaign. Even those who are not really Trump supporters are thoroughly disgusted with the impression given that the object is to stop Trump by any means, fair or foul, so they are moving to Trump out of sheer revulsion at the Demo tactics. Cheney went down not because she held a principle concerning 6 Jan. but because she managed to telegraph that this was a sustained personal attack not a legal objection.

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Re: Chaos in USA

#3144 Post by John Hill » Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:13 pm

boing wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:39 pm
Even those who are not really Trump supporters are thoroughly disgusted with the impression given that the object is to stop Trump by any means, fair or foul, so they are moving to Trump out of sheer revulsion at the Demo tactics.
If they are that stupid they obviously deserve Trump so all power to them eh?
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Re: Chaos in USA

#3145 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:53 pm

What no Democrats are seriously considering is the stubborn kick-back against the "block Trump by any means" campaign.
Spot on, Boing!
Republican enthusiasm for voting up 15 points, but not the Dem voters.


There have been so many examples, not least from Trump's election in 2016, that the left wing/ media lies and BS are actually causing what they are trying to stop. This has to be the heights of both arrogance and dissociation from reality. And it's not just the USA.

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Re: Chaos in USA

#3146 Post by TheGreenAnger » Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:52 pm

Trump, so passe! Pretty much like the goons, kooks, fascists, post Ayn Rand b@llsh@t merchants and aged (mostly moribund male) malcontents that trumpet his perfidy and lies! =))
My necessaries are embark'd: farewell. Adieu! I have too grieved a heart to take a tedious leave.

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Re: Chaos in USA

#3147 Post by boing » Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:38 pm

Spoken like a true Democrat. Passion, hate, stereotyping and no facts. Perhaps you should re-examine the Clinton Russia hoax before you disperse to many accusations about lies. How bout the treasonous collaboration between Hunter Biden, Joe Biden and the Chinese businesses? The involvement of the President with large amounts of money and foreign governments doesn't look too good does it? I think I will invent a new medical condition ,,, Demomyoepia.

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Re: Chaos in USA

#3148 Post by John Hill » Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:47 pm

What-about-ery is a rather pathetic debating tactic.
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Re: Chaos in USA

#3149 Post by TheGreenAnger » Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:52 pm

boing wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:38 pm
Spoken like a true Democrat. Passion, hate, stereotyping and no facts. Perhaps you should re-examine the Clinton Russia hoax before you disperse to many accusations about lies. How bout the treasonous collaboration between Hunter Biden, Joe Biden and the Chinese businesses? The involvement of the President with large amounts of money and foreign governments doesn't look too good does it? I think I will invent a new medical condition ,,, Demomyoepia.

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Me a Democrat? ;)))

I am rationalist, unlike the Trumpian truth denialists! What a sad part of the Venn diagram of idiocy the pro-Trump delusional seem to want to occupy!

Boing, with respect (and I mean that), I don't know what you are, but I sure hope you find some kind of peace and contentment in your life, before it is too late! While some of the stuff you point out is undoubtedly true, your mindless, amoral, support for a grifter like Trump, undermines your position as an intelligent, moral, and reasonable man.
My necessaries are embark'd: farewell. Adieu! I have too grieved a heart to take a tedious leave.

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Re: Chaos in USA

#3150 Post by TheGreenAnger » Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:48 pm

TheGreenAnger wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:52 pm
boing wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:38 pm
Spoken like a true Democrat. Passion, hate, stereotyping and no facts. Perhaps you should re-examine the Clinton Russia hoax before you disperse to many accusations about lies. How bout the treasonous collaboration between Hunter Biden, Joe Biden and the Chinese businesses? The involvement of the President with large amounts of money and foreign governments doesn't look too good does it? I think I will invent a new medical condition ,,, Demomyoepia.

.
Me a Democrat? ;)))

I am rationalist, unlike the Trumpian truth denialists! What a sad part of the Venn diagram of idiocy the pro-Trump delusional seem to want to occupy!

Boing, with respect (and I mean that), I don't know what you are, but I sure hope you find some kind of peace and contentment in your life, before it is too late! While some of the stuff you point out is undoubtedly true, your mindless, amoral, support for a grifter like Trump, undermines your position as an intelligent, moral, and reasonable man.
Would you cut it?

I call you out on aged B'llsh7t man...

My necessaries are embark'd: farewell. Adieu! I have too grieved a heart to take a tedious leave.

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Re: Chaos in USA

#3151 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:05 am

Well, I think John has a valid point about Whataboutery. The simple truth is that every party political leader (or prospective candidates thereto) has a large number of faults, failings, and hypocrisies that can't be defended, leaving the only option of attacking the opponent.
I've always held that Trump was quite possibly the second-worst candidate ever offered for the Presidency. However, his opponent was the worst. Canada is no better, either Federally or Provincially, and the only way I will turn up at the next election is if I can think of some witticism to spoil my ballot with.
A pox on both their houses. I like our local anarchy.

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Re: Chaos in USA

#3152 Post by prospector » Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:12 am

Whilst I would not say fronting up to a bar with Pres Trump for a pint would necessarily be an enjoyable experience, he and his administration certainly had America in a far better place than it would appear to be now. How anybody can qualify for high office by being simply female and black defies any attempt at improving the standard, if there is such a thing, for senior politicians. What a requirement for a Vice President, as most would now agree.
Rationalist Someone: who forms opinions by reasoning , from my perspective boing would fit that definition, only defined by his posts, more than many in this forum.

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Re: Chaos in USA

#3153 Post by boing » Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:09 am

GA. Have you ever allowed yourself to compare the recent US Presidents and how they came to power, fact for fact. But first let me say, to address your charges of idiocy, I admit that is true, I voted for Obama twice in succession, mainly on his promise to close the Guantanamo Bay prison which he could have done in his first week of his first term in office but never actually did in two terms.

Facts. As Secretary of State Hilarious Clinton ran a second computer network in parallel with her Government system which was strictly against all rules, when it was discovered the data servers were completely erased. What would have happened if Trump did this, no punishment for Hillary. During the 2016 election run-ups it was suggested that Trump committed some sort of espionage with Russia. A complete fabrication.
The FBI knew the Trump-Russia collusion narrative was utter bunk even as it suggested otherwise to Congress, the courts and the public early in 2017. Evidence revealed by special counsel John Durham proves it beyond dispute.
Presently we are finding that Joe Biden aided his son's relationship with China and profited from it. Remember the "10% for the big guy" quote.

Now, tell me what Trump actually did that was in any way as bad as the examples I mentioned. Trump has a character that upsets some but tell me what, despite numerous accusations, has actually been proven as a crime by Trump.


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Re: Chaos in USA

#3154 Post by boing » Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:15 am

"Whataboutery" is a defense of people with no way of countering an argument presented. What it basically says is "don't give me facts that contradict my opinion".

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Re: Chaos in USA

#3155 Post by John Hill » Fri Aug 19, 2022 3:56 am

boing wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:15 am
"Whataboutery" is a defense of people with no way of countering an argument presented. What it basically says is "don't give me facts that contradict my opinion".

.


....double post!
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Re: Chaos in USA

#3156 Post by John Hill » Fri Aug 19, 2022 3:58 am

boing wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:15 am
"Whataboutery" is a defense of people with no way of countering an argument presented. What it basically says is "don't give me facts that contradict my opinion".
Would those be factual facts or Republican alternative facts?
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Re: Chaos in USA

#3157 Post by boing » Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:54 am

For my own education I actually sought a definition of "Whataboutism". As expected for a relatively new popular word the definition is what people want it to be.

This version agrees with my ideas although it is put rather bluntly.
" Whataboutism is a valid argument.
“What about” arguments are valid and logical. The point is to highlight double standards. If you have a problem with those kinds of arguments, it’s probably because you’re too stupid or lazy to defend your double standards and would prefer if they weren’t brought up at all."
I think this hits the crux of the matter. If "Whataoutism" compares two dissimilar situations it is a weak argument but if it compares two closely identified situations it is valid.

Let's stay with politicians. If two politicians both killed someone in a motor accident, one was drunk and one was unlucky, it would be pointless a year later to claim that one was unfairly punished and the other was treated leniently. Double standards matter.

Alternatively, if the politician who was drunk was given a misdemeanor charge while the one who was purely unlucky was put on probation and sent back to compulsory driver retraining there would certainly be a cause for valid "Whataboutism".

The circumstances matter so if the argument compares two people who carried out similar actions yet suffered a different response a "What about" type argument is perfectly valid. This argument applies to Clinton's proven e-mail scandal versus Trump's yet to be evaluated document raid.

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Re: Chaos in USA

#3158 Post by boing » Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:17 am

Facts John.

The Durham investigation clearly showed that the "Russia Gate" attack against Trump was created by a chain of pro-Clinton operatives. I suggest you read the report as I have no intention of encouraging your lack of preparation.

We now see that Trump is being criticised for rumours as yet unproven, actually as of this time not even specified because the affidavit related to the search warrant has not been released. There is reluctance to release the complete affidavit on the usual claim of "national security" so we may never know why Trump was actually raided. How terribly convenient. Hopefully an unredacted version of the affidavit may be published, well after the elections I'm sure.

This is not "Whataboutism" John. It is a perfectly valid question to ask why no one involved in Clinton's documented Russia Gate scandal has been punished but why whatever Trump has not yet been charged with leads to him being treated as guilty without trial.

John, please reduce your rhetoric and increase your facts, your posts would be much more interesting.

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Re: Chaos in USA

#3159 Post by John Hill » Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:21 am

I trust you drew your verification of Whataboutism from a reliable source?
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Re: Chaos in USA

#3160 Post by John Hill » Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:28 am

Was anyone convicted for "Russia Gate" crimes?

Was anyone convicted for crimes in relation to the 'Clinton e-mail' kerfuffle?
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