Chaos in USA

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Rwy in Sight
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Re: Chaos in USA

#501 Post by Rwy in Sight » Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:24 pm

Undried Plum wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:02 pm
Rwy in Sight wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:58 pm
Facism when an unelected group imposes harm into another.
Fascism is the marriage of Corporatism and Statism. They don't, knowingly, impose harm on eachother. They feed off eachother and thrive.
In healthy doses they are both useful. And it is annoying when we make reference to facism when we don't like.

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Oh! Ferfuxake

#502 Post by Undried Plum » Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:27 pm

Image


And so it goes on.

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Re: Chaos in USA

#503 Post by AtomKraft » Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:40 pm

Isn't it reasonable that a population elect someone like the majority of themselves?

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Re: Chaos in USA

#504 Post by boing » Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:42 pm

The first domino falls. Democrat publicly instructs de Blasio (Mayor, Democrat) and Cuomo (Governer, Democrat) to call for help in New York.
Mr. Rose said the “unprecedented looting and attacks on officers and bystanders” was not the work of peaceful protesters, who have gathered in New York and across the country after the Memorial Day killing of George Floyd while in police custody in Minnesota.
San Francisco area, Democrat
Los Angeles, Democrat.
Seattle, Democrat.
Chicago, Democrat.
Portland, Democrat.
New York, Democrat.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... 1110683270

This does not mean that these administrations have really been worse then any others but they will inevitably be seen as failing and this will be used against them in elections because law enforcement is very much a State's responsibility until a Federal offense has occurred.
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the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible.

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Re: Chaos in USA

#505 Post by AtomKraft » Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:42 pm

Most Americans are as thick as *****, and know very little about affairs outside the US.

QED, La Trump!

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Re: Chaos in USA

#506 Post by Undried Plum » Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:46 pm

Tribalism is a problem in America.

A really really serious one.

Tribalism;Nationalism;Racism:- all three are just the same thing --- just looked at from a different distance through different focal length lenses.

That nasty stuff is a matter of attempting to create and identify and attack imaginary enemies and to persuade people to tool up and to get ready for an attack.

That's a really major problem for America.

Always has been, actually.

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Re: Chaos in USA

#507 Post by Undried Plum » Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:55 pm

AtomKraft wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:42 pm
Most Americans are as thick as *****, and know very little about affairs outside the US.
Worse! Most of 'em don't know much about what is going on in their own country either.

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Re: Chaos in USA

#508 Post by boing » Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:01 pm

Here is what you need to know.
(Wikipaedia)
The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385, original at 20 Stat. 152) signed on June 18, 1878, by President Rutherford B. Hayes. The purpose of the act – in concert with the Insurrection Act of 1807 – is to limit the powers of the federal government in using federal military personnel to enforce domestic policies within the United States. It was passed as an amendment to an army appropriation bill following the end of Reconstruction and was updated in 1956 and 1981.

The act specifically applies only to the United States Army and, as amended in 1956, the United States Air Force. Although the act does not explicitly mention the United States Navy and the United States Marine Corps, the Department of the Navy has prescribed regulations that are generally construed to give the act force with respect to those services as well. The act does not prevent the Army National Guard or the Air National Guard under state authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within its home state or in an adjacent state if invited by that state's governor. The United States Coast Guard (under the Department of Homeland Security) and United States Space Force (under the Department of the Air Force) are not covered by the Posse Comitatus Act either, primarily because although both are armed services, they also have maritime and space law enforcement missions respectively.
So, an attempt by Trump to use the Army, Air Force and, possibly, Navy in civilian law enforcement will fail, although the Supreme Court may need to get involved. State military units can be used plus, as the extract mentions, those from adjacent States. There is also in many State laws an ability for the police to deputise citizens but if this requires much training instead of simply boots on the ground the timescale may not work. It is quite likely that a considerable number of retired police officers could be recalled as volunteers since in most States, even after retirement, ex-police officers retain certain police rights, such as carry of a concealed weapon, if they have maintained currency.

Interestingly, the concept of a Militia is still current.
Today, as defined by the Militia Act of 1903, the term "militia" is used to describe two classes within the United States:[8]

Organized militia – consisting of State militia forces; notably, the National Guard and Naval Militia.[9]
Unorganized militia – composing the Reserve Militia: every able-bodied man of at least 17 and under 45 years of age, not a member of the National Guard or Naval Militia.[10]
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the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible.

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Re: Chaos in USA

#509 Post by Boac » Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:04 pm

With any luck, both sides of the divide will take each other out in sufficient quantities and the remaining jigsaw pieces can be picked up by someone with a brain and put back into 'the USofA'. I'm optimistic. Bring it on.

"Start the shooting'"

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Re: Chaos in USA

#510 Post by Undried Plum » Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:12 pm

boing wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:01 pm
Organized militia – consisting of State militia forces; notably, the National Guard and Naval Militia.[9]
Unorganized militia – composing the Reserve Militia: every able-bodied man of at least 17 and under 45 years of age, not a member of the National Guard or Naval Militia.[10]
[/quote]

Are they allowed/expected to shoot eachother?

Where does the dripdown stop?

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Re: Chaos in USA

#511 Post by barkingmad » Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:21 pm

Settle down children, today, in the light of recent events, we will do a short refresher course in British/Irish history from within the last 55 years timespan, something your daddys and mummys will possibly remember.
Then when you read the reports of riots and looting etc, just remember to swop the terms 'white' and 'black' and substitute for them the words 'Protestant' and 'Catholic'.
Then we will reflect on how "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" and ponder on it's relevance to civil rights and the treatment of those who, for whatever reason, consider themselves to be the underdog and the underprivileged.

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/day- ... e-1.216524

Over 30 years of conflict later and we can then look back and see the mistakes which were made by the authorities on both sides of this nasty civil war. And in the US they're not even initially WELCOMING THE TROOPS?! But heyho, after 3,000+ deaths and far more injured it has all settled down until those pesky Europeans start stirring the pot of memories and dubious causes again. [-X

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Re: Chaos in USA

#512 Post by AtomKraft » Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:30 pm

Plum.
One example of 'Tribalism', and you notice it everywhere in US culture, is the 'bad guys'.


"We killed the bad guys" "The bad guys are over there" 'We saved our troops from the bad guys"

So, implicit in this, is that the US MUST be "The good guys".

The truth is that the US are the "bad guys".

They've started more wars against "the bad guys" than any "bad guy" ever started.

Seenenough

Re: Chaos in USA

#513 Post by Seenenough » Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:33 pm

Undried Plum wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:55 pm
AtomKraft wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:42 pm
Most Americans are as thick as *****, and know very little about affairs outside the US.
Worse! Most of 'em don't know much about what is going on in their own country either.

Not True .I have found that most Americans are quite knowledgable about what is going on in the US.

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Re: Chaos in USA

#514 Post by boing » Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:36 pm

In practical terms the United States (an expression which people fail to analyse) is a formal commonwealth of 50 independent nations. As each State is a mini nation and it has rights over certain aspects of control over its own administration. These rights are more or less insisted upon by the State. It was agreed as part of the arrangement that the Federal Government would handle all matters which seemed to be of common interest to all States.

Now, as I have pointed out before, my own State, Oregon, is 6,000 square miles bigger than England, Scotland and Wales combined (incidentally, it is only the 9th State in its area). The population of the UK (minus Ireland) is about 64,000,000 people, that of Oregon is 4,000,000. Now, before you start laying into Americans as dumb, uneducated in their own political and World affairs ask yourself why most of them should give a damn. The US has a much smaller population density than the UK with much of it consisting of areas of very low population where the main interest of folks is in their produce (often agriculture), the problems of producing same and how much they can get when it goes to market. These people also work bloody hard. Their main interest is how they will make a living with very little concern about what the leaders in Washington are saying and even less in the opinions of the leaders in China. Yet, as an example, a friend and I got a car stuck in mud in a remote area and a passing farmer stopped, then drove all the way back to his farm, returned with a tractor (a slow process) and rescued us. Yes, urban Americans, the Twitterati, the pseudo intelectuals can be a pain in the butt, however most rural Americans think of them in the same way I do --- and you do. I am quite prepared to smack someone in the face for uneducated criticism of true Americans as I would be to smack a UK city dweller in the face for demeaning Farmer Bloggs as stupid.

By using shotgun criticism of the US population you are only showing your own intolerance and ignorance.

.
the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible.

Seenenough

Re: Chaos in USA

#515 Post by Seenenough » Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:41 pm

"By using shotgun criticism of the US population you are only showing your own intolerance and ignorance."

+1

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Re: Chaos in USA

#516 Post by BenThere » Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:44 pm

I wonder, too, about the application of Posse Comitatus if the US active duty military is called upon to apply its force against US citizens in insurrection. The question is whether emergency conditions and emergency powers of the president override the constraints of Posse Comitatus. The issue may well go to the Supreme Court for determination.

One thing that is clear, though, is that the current conflagrations going on in most of our major cities arouse widespread and legitimate concern. I think the everyday citizen, like me, is quite alarmed at the lawlessness and wants it suppressed, and the scale of it may require the strength of our armed forces to quell. So what do you do?

Today, cities around the country are overwhelmed with the damage and inadequacy of their police forces to contain it. The US military has the wherewithal to restore order. The Posse Comitatus law does stand in the way, but that can be repealed, a solution I would favor as the situation stands. But that would require the assent of the Democrat House of Representatives, a long shot as they value the unseating of President Trump much more than the welfare of the US.

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Re: Chaos in USA

#517 Post by Undried Plum » Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:45 pm

Seenenough wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:33 pm
I have found that most Americans are quite knowledgable about what is going on in the US.
Whaaaat!!!?

Most of 'em know fukkall about anything about their own state or its contiguous one(s). Never mind the outside world!

Americans learn geography from what they are told on telly about American wars!

They've got an entire institution which entrains their thick heads to believe that their wars are "foreign wars". I promise I'm not making this up.

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Re: Chaos in USA

#518 Post by Undried Plum » Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:53 pm

BenThere wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:44 pm
The US military has the wherewithal to restore order. The Posse Comitatus law does stand in the way, but that can be repealed, a solution I would favor as the situation stands.
Oh! Ferfuxake!!

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Re: Chaos in USA

#519 Post by boing » Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:53 pm

AtomKraft,

I suggest you read books called
"Queen Victoria's Little Wars"
"The East India Company and Army Reform 1793-1798"
There is another one called something like "The Technology of Colonialism" but I can't find it right now.

Your views concerning the perfection of your tribe and the faults of the other one may change.

.
the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible.

Seenenough

Re: Chaos in USA

#520 Post by Seenenough » Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:55 pm

"Most of 'em know fukkall about anything about their own state or its contiguous one(s). Never mind the outside world!"

You are free to have whatever opinion you like.

My experience is that the opposite of your opinion is more the reality as I have learned living here for over ten years.

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