Chaos in USA

[Pontius Navigator]

CNN

The investigation by the Manhattan District Attorney's office began when Trump was still in the White House and relates to a $130,000 payment made by Trump's then-personal attorney Michael Cohen to Daniels in late October 2016, days before the 2016 presidential election, to silence her from going public about an alleged affair with Trump a decade earlier. Trump has denied the affair.

Mrs PN points put it was not an affair but a business contact.

[PHXPhlyer]

CNN

The investigation by the Manhattan District Attorney's office began when Trump was still in the White House and relates to a $130,000 payment made by Trump's then-personal attorney Michael Cohen to Daniels in late October 2016, days before the 2016 presidential election, to silence her from going public about an alleged affair with Trump a decade earlier. Trump has denied the affair.

Mrs PN points put it was not an affair but a business contact.

It was a contract to cover up the contact.
The fact that it was done to try to affect the outcome of the election is the problem.

PP

[llondel]

I believe Trump made a substantial payment to a porn star.

Trump's lawyer made a payment to a porn star.
There is no evidence presented yet that Trump recompensed him.

I have vague recollection of the existence of a cheque (or check, I guess, seeing as it's in the US) with Trump's signature on it. I think there's enough evidence to connect him to what happened, now it's down to whether the prosecution has a good enough case to convict him.

This is as it should be - the law can take its course. There is enough evidence to warrant a proper examination in front of a jury, and it is in the public interest to show that he's not above the law.

[barkingmad]

Admin1 posted in late 2016;

“Raised the possibility of merging three topics relating to US politics a few days ago, receiving no objections. Just looked at the logistics of doing so, and it has the potential of becoming very messy - sorting posts by date/time doesn't play very well. So have decided a better solution might be to lock all three to future contributions, and start up a new US politics topic, this one. So the two hamster wheels and the POTUS one are now locked”.

That was the US Hamster Wheel thread...

Do I detect serious thread drift away from this thread topic of mass shootings in the USA?

Or are some here linking shooting with the current POTUS shambles?

Step forwards the 2023 version of Lee Harvey Oswald perhaps....

[admin2]

Do I detect serious thread drift away from this thread topic of mass shootings in the USA?

That is NOT the 'thread topic'. It happens to be your opening post on Alison's new thread. The thread topic, in case you have not noticed?, is "Chaos in USA".

What was your point?

[Alisoncc]

BM, 'twas I as Admin1 back then. Does give me an opening to address thoughts on the most recent "mass shooting". I had a lot in common with the perpetrator, being both trans and diagnosed with High Functioning Autism. HFA used to be known as Asperger's Syndrome.

By all accounts those investigating the incident have been unable to ascertain the motive. Sorry, but I have a total understanding of why what happened happened. There have been occasions when given the wherewithal I may have been only too happy to have committed mass murder myself. Not children though. With enough CEO's of US pharmaceutical companies together. Well that's a different story - more later.

Asperger's is very isolating. You don't get on with people, and are unable to share situations that really wind you up. So you bottle them up to the point where they explode. Yes I've been there, far too often to recount !! And she was struggling with Gender Dysphoria, in I suspect a religious intolerant environment. Father is a Pastor and school was a private religious school. So there was most probably years of bottled anger, which exploded. So to me what happened made sense. Not that I condone it, but I sure as hell understand it.

As for the CEO's of US pharmaceutical companies. Pushing powerful Endocrine Disruptors to pregnant mothers in the name of profit for thirty odd years. Enough said. It is now believed that the effects are intergenerational. They go on and on.

It is said by many that guns in America isn't the problem. But combine the sheer level of intolerance between disparate groups that exists in the US with access to the means to "get even" is surely a recipe for unending strife.

[barkingmad]

Do I detect serious thread drift away from this thread topic of mass shootings in the USA?

That is NOT the 'thread topic'. It happens to be your opening post on Alison's new thread. The thread topic, in case you have not noticed?, is "Chaos in USA".

What was your point?

Admin2, obviously my English Language comprehension is not what it used to be when I was at secondary skule?!

I started this thread with an apparently clear message, since when the thread seems to have become a refuge for anything USA derived for which members are unable to find a more relevant home.

:---"Chaos in USA
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#1 Post by barkingmad » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:18 pm

About 3,000 deaths recorded after 9/11 and look where that took us?

These statistics put that casualty count into perspective, or maybe not.

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

Discussion topic?"---:

IMHO discussions about former POTUS Donald Trump would be better expressed and followed in the USA Hamster Wheel thread and not here, others like you will presumably differ for whatever reason.
My take on it is from one who has been censured over "deliberate posting in the wrong thread", for which little or no evidence was ever offered.

Alison, please accept my sympathies for your suffering at the hands of both cultural/religious organisations and for having suffered inherited damages from the long-term wickedness of BigPharma.

Their interference in medicine, since John D Rockefeller took over the US medical establishment, is still earning them incalculable amounts of dosh which easily pays the massive fines to which they are subject as a result of their past misdemeanours.

However, maybe it's small consolation that their latest money-grubbing wheeze will see this entire history of malfeasance exposed and hopefully a restoration to a form of medicinal practice which is more suited to the needs of the patient and not geared to the profits of corporations.

Again Alison, your comment:---"There have been occasions when given the wherewithal I may have been only too happy to have committed mass murder myself. Not children though. With enough CEO's of US pharmaceutical companies together. Well that's a different story - more later"..... more accurately sums up MY white hot rage at the alleged C19 'pandemic', hence my obsession with that topic which is under unbalanced discussion elsewhere in Ops-Normal but for which I have received considerable 'flak'.

But so far I have survived the pile-ons and remain optimistic that mass-formation will be recognised and "normal service will be resumed asap!"

[Dushan]

BM, 'twas I as Admin1 back then. Does give me an opening to address thoughts on the most recent "mass shooting". I had a lot in common with the perpetrator, being both trans and diagnosed with High Functioning Autism. HFA used to be known as Asperger's Syndrome.

By all accounts those investigating the incident have been unable to ascertain the motive. Sorry, but I have a total understanding of why what happened happened. There have been occasions when given the wherewithal I may have been only too happy to have committed mass murder myself. Not children though. With enough CEO's of US pharmaceutical companies together. Well that's a different story - more later.

Asperger's is very isolating. You don't get on with people, and are unable to share situations that really wind you up. So you bottle them up to the point where they explode. Yes I've been there, far too often to recount !! And she was struggling with Gender Dysphoria, in I suspect a religious intolerant environment. Father is a Pastor and school was a private religious school. So there was most probably years of bottled anger, which exploded. So to me what happened made sense. Not that I condone it, but I sure as hell understand it.

As for the CEO's of US pharmaceutical companies. Pushing powerful Endocrine Disruptors to pregnant mothers in the name of profit for thirty odd years. Enough said. It is now believed that the effects are intergenerational. They go on and on.

It is said by many that guns in America isn't the problem. But combine the sheer level of intolerance between disparate groups that exists in the US with access to the means to "get even" is surely a recipe for unending strife.

Taking into account everything above the last paragraph would the tragedy have not happened if guns were not available? Propane cylinders, gas cans, etc. come to mind. Asking for a friend.

[OFSO]

Thank you Alison. Explains a lot for us who don't know.

[llondel]

Taking into account everything above the last paragraph would the tragedy have not happened if guns were not available? Propane cylinders, gas cans, etc. come to mind. Asking for a friend.

Given where the US is now, possibly not. However, if you look at other countries which did restrict access to guns after shooting incidents, you can see that their incidence has dropped down.

The argument about using guns against a tyrannical government doesn't really hold water - if the armed forces stand with the government then a bunch of militia with AR15s is still going to get wiped out. If the armed forces choose to side with the people then you've got plenty of well-trained and equipped personnel to do the job. Also consider that some of these people are clearly unhinged, and if you were taking on the government you might not want them on your side except as cannon fodder.

So no, I don't think you'd eliminate the problem, because the real crazies would use another means, but you might stop those who, by the time they'd put together all the stuff they needed, would have calmed down enough to realise it's not going to solve anything. I'm sure there are plenty of people who have enough knowledge to make a really big bang using readily-available materials, but choose not to use it, but the gun is embedded in the US psyche and it's all too easy to acquire one and use it.

I did see a report that having a gun is more likely to make you the victim of crime, too. As criminals want to get hold of untraceable guns (or at least not traceable back to them), the obvious place to get one is from a home where there is a legal firearm. How many people would actually shoot when faced with a hostile, and possibly armed, intruder? if you're not one then don't have a gun because they'll take it from you and possibly use it against you. If you keep a loaded gun accessible in the house,which is what you need for home defence, as opposed to unloaded and locked in a gun safe, but you also leave it there when you're out, someone may break in and steal it.

[Dushan]

The argument is weak and is debunked every time one looks at crime statistics in states and areas with strict gun control (crime = high) and states like Vermont where there are practically no gun control laws. You know what they say “an armed society is a polite society”.

[prospector]

Good point.

[Pinky the pilot]

Dushan; As I understand it, the US States that have the least Gun crime are the States that have Concealed Carry Permits!

And are there some states that have 'Open Carry Permits?'

[Dushan]

There a thousand nuances on open/concealed carry, but as a general rule open carry does not need any kind of permit while concealed does.

[boing]

Historically open carry was the standard, concealed carry was considered the choice of potential criminals. There are still States where open carry is normal in rural areas, I have even been to a bar in a small town in Wyoming where there is still a notice at the doorway saying check your gun before entry - and they were serious it was not just to impress tourists.

There is a strange reverse logic about open carry. The Constitution says you can own a firearm which implies you may carry it which upsets a lot of people so, so that the more weak kneed will not faint at the sight of a gun, some areas restrict open carry. They must permit carry per se so they revert to saying the firearm must be concealed and then offer a permit to resolve a problem they just created. 100% open carry is impractical in many areas owing to climatic or other reasons so a gun on a belt holster under a jacket is the norm which would could be interpreted as concealed carry.

In my State concealed means totally concealed, allowing a firearm to show could be considered threatening behaviour, most people take this seriously more so than many professionals who should know better. I flew first class on one flight shortly after 9/11 and from inside knowledge it was easy to tell that the fellow in the ill fitting jacket and thick soled shoes ahead of me was an Air Marshall. Coincidentally we checked into the same hotel together and as he bent over to reach for his papers in his briefcase he gave the whole lobby area a great view of his service weapon..

Another interesting thing about my State is that until recently threatening anyone with a gun, even saying "Stay away or I will shoot" was illegal because it could be interpreted as threatening behaviour which was illegal. The only technically legal result of drawing a gun was to shoot immediately because shooting in self-defense was legally justified whereas threatening was not.


.

[PHXPhlyer]

Dushan; As I understand it, the US States that have the least Gun crime are the States that have Concealed Carry Permits!

And are there some states that have 'Open Carry Permits?'

Many states now require no permit to carry open or concealed. Called Constitutional Carry.
Also most require no proof of training either. My state is among them and Florida just passed their own no permit required law.
My state still offers a concealed carry permit even though not strictly required.
An applicant has to attend an 8 hour class covering gun laws and includes qualification with a firearm.
The permit allows for purchase of firearms with no waiting period as fingerprinting and a background check are done on application. Additional differences are that a permittee can be armed in a bar if it is not posted and no alcohol is consumed..An unverified perk is said to be that if one is caught in a posted "no firearms allowed" establishment and police are involved, a permittee would be given a warning upon producing said permit.
My excuse would be that I couldn't see the sign for the fat person standing in front of it.
Also, traffic stops are a little less tense as when an officer checks the car registration on making the stop the computer flags the fact that the owner has a permit.

PP

[Woody]

Quite a few newsroom helicopters hovering in the LaGuardia region, wonder why?

Just over 80000 following Trump Force One on Flightradar24 as it landed

[Woody]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... other.html

[Pinky the pilot]

Woody; Cannot view link as Daily Fail insists I disable my Adblocker.

That just is not going to happen!!

Can you give us a summary please?

[Woody]

Here’s the first paragraph Pinky, I’m sure you’ll work out the rest

America's most inbred family started with identical twin brothers whose children married each other - causing heartbreaking genetic defects which have left some of them grunting instead of talking.