WTF is happening in the UK?

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

The RAF Regiment Sergeant who did my initial RoE training said that his personal interpretation of the requirement to state "Halt, Air Force, or I fire." three times, was:

"RAF" bang!

..and since he had done guard duty in nasty places, I resolved to adopt that approach too.

[boing]

In the US you would probably be found not chargeable with any crime before the matter even arrived in court but you could easily be sued in a civilian lawsuit by the family of the deceased where you would be accused of using excessive force under the circumstances. That's just a matter for the lawyers and the jury, happens all the time with shark lawyers. Not being charged officially would be a big factor in your favour but your defense would still cost a bundle.

In the UK who knows? Probably depends on the Judge and the initial public response, the elected sometimes find it painful to go against public opinion..

.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Indeed.
I think what happens in these cases means they are very well worth avoiding in the first place.
Take George Zimmerman, for example:
https://www.americanthinker.com/article ... n_now.html

And this article is from this last week.

[ian16th]

p.s. the safety catch on a Met Police G36 is in about the same place as on an SA80, as is the cocking handle, should you ever need that gen.

Thanks for that, but not much use to those of us that never got our hands on anything more modern than a .303 Short Magazine Lee-Enfield and a Bren.

[k3k3]

The short course:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_% ... e_selector

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Things haven't changed much ian16th.
The safety catch is still within reach of your right thumb, except it's now forward of the trigger guard rather than above it as with the SMLE. The cocking lever is still in the centre of the right side, just forward and above the magazine. Your natural training with the SMLE - my first weapon also - will see you right.

I do not know if the Police G36s have the automatic fire setting. Just shove the lever forward. If they do, your terrorist gets 10 bullets in the head, not 2.

[4mastacker]

"Why did you fire 15 rounds into the body of the deceased?"

"I ran out of ammunition, yer honour".




I know, it's been said before.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Along with the equally classic

Reporter: "What did you feel after you'd shot him?"

Shooter: "Recoil"

[Rwy in Sight]

The last comments deserve a place in the Friday's joke thread as well next to the best of Ricardian.

I hope I never have to use the knowledge acquired from the few last posts

[larsssnowpharter]

I know we see the G36 in all the movies but ian16th might prefer his trusty Lee Enfield in any extended firefight.

There was a long series of court cases in Germany following the failure of the G36 to maintain accuracy after firing off a couple of mags. I think HK won bases on the fact that the design met the original spec. Problem was, if I recall, warping of the plastic when hot.

That said:

Great sighting system.
Easy to cock for lefties.
Unlikely to be an issue in an urban environment.

German Army now looking for a replacement.

[boing]

The various carbines are really 3 yard to 100 yard guns. At less than 3 yards they are not as handy as a pistol and over 100 yards the pistol caliber carbines start to run out of energy. The carbines in pistol calibers such as the 9mm Luger and 40 S&W fit this group. The carbines in rifle calibers such as 5.56 NATO have potentially longer ranges but the sighting systems generally do not support this. Inside 3 yards they become less handy and they are more likely to be pushed to one side in close combat.

A pistol is the better short range weapon mainly using the same ammunition in a more handy package so the firepower at close range is the same. Effectively a pistol is a 0 to 25 yard gun.

If you have a single target at a range where you can take your time to set up the shot without interference from assailants close by the carbine would be the better choice, not because it has more power but because it usually holds more ammunition and the sights are better. If you are in a fur-ball the pistol is more usable but you have to train on instinctive aiming such as taught by Fairbarn and Sykes (Shanghai 1920's) rather than the more common aiming technique.

In the London case the range was probably less than 10 feet.

.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Based on the video I've seen, it was 8 feet.
Because of its length, the Lee Enfield was horrible in urban and jungle fights. A carbine version, the Mark V, was brought in for that reason.
However, even with iron sights, I could get a six inch group at 600 yards with a Lee Enfield. The 303 round will still kill at 2 miles range, as a range accident involving a distant sheep proved to me one day (I was not the shooter!)

[larsssnowpharter]

Boing,

I'll disagree with you on a couple of points:

The G36 has a mind-blowing sighting system. I've shot easy 6 inch groups with it at 200 yards and targets at 300 yds. But you know what? I can do that with a Lee Enfield 303.

I'll dispute your claim of a pistol being good up to 25 yds. Maybe on a range with a paper target but not in any realistic situation with a scared individual and a fast moving situation. Give it about 10 ft otherwise you can fart at them for all the good it would do.

For close range work you need a shotgun; preferably loaded with 00. Up to 20 yds with a spread of 6 ft you'll stop anything.

[Pontius Navigator]

My favourite was the Sterling. Absolutely dead recoil. Supposedly accurate to 200 yards.

At school we once had an outing to Beckingham Ranges
I was in the butts with the snap target. Four hundred yards away was one of the smallest boys in our flight. He didn't get a single round in the circle but he got 3 through the post I was holding. Would have got him in the balls.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Occasionally, the rock ape taking our FJ aircrew annual shooting would have us do realistic shooting. He reckoned (and I agree) that this would either be single aimed shots on an unsuspecting target (so three rounds deliberate), or a rapid fire from surprise (go from prone to standing then empty the magazine - remaining 10 rounds). All at 15 yards. We could pretty much all get the three rounds in the circles, and all the remainder somewhere between balls and head.

[barkingmad]

HE’S A VILLAIN SIR....AND A JAILBIRD SIR!!

Just to lighten up the mood. Though I think this would never have passed the current BBC PC brigade’s beady eyes?



It is a serious worry that ANYONE shooting this piece of ordure Usman, in those circumstances would EVER be criticised for their actions whether they were an unqualified member of the public or an experienced and trained firearms officer. It’s a sad reflection of the awful place that the ECHR and the so-called liberals have corralled a previously free society and put handcuffs on all it’s citizens whilst they try to defend themselves against the lowlifes who infest with more being invited to further infest the land. Whether they’re sultana chasers or common repetitive burglars as per the farmer Martin case, we in UK and other parts of the “Free World” are being suffocated by crap legislation passed by crap legislators.

And worryingly when I tried to cut & paste the video link twice it ended with ‘v=‘ and would not display the full URL. That’s how far censorship has gone in UK! ! !

Help, get me outa here!!! F F S call the vet quickly!!!

[Pontius Navigator]

The RAF Regiment Sergeant who did my initial RoE training said that his personal interpretation of the requirement to state "Halt, Air Force, or I fire." three times, was:

"RAF" bang!

..and since he had done guard duty in nasty places, I resolved to adopt that approach too.

I remember one of the first shoots we had on the sqn, Bertie Worster fancied he was a marksman. I had fired all 5 rounds from the .38 before Bertie fired his first. Accurate, probably, suppressive fire, not at all.

[G-CPTN]

Early in my married life, I joined a pistol-shooting club.
There was an American base nearby, and several US servicemen would come along with their own weapons.
A burly sergeant turned up with a large revolver and loosed-off five shots from a standing position - like a wild-western gunfighter.
Non hit the target - or the surrounding card.
He then adopted a squat whilst leaning on the 'table' in front of the shooting position and squinted at the target along the gunsight using both hands to hold the weapon - the round went through the bull.
"I guess it is me and not the gurn" he uttered in a drawl.

[larsssnowpharter]

Fox,

I'll call you out on your 6 inch group at 600 yds on iron sights unless it was a total fluke.

At that range, without match grade ammunition, it simply will not happen.

Now, upgrade to an L42A1 and you might be in with a chance in low but steady wind conditions and provided you used decent ammunition and not the crap used in practice.

[Pontius Navigator]

provided you used decent ammunition and not the crap used in practice.

At one point, where the only realistic use for a pistol was for sound location our ammunition was made in Pakistan. Stoppages were common with some bullets not powerful enough to operate the slide or reach the targetcor occasionally clear the barrel.